youngun

For the record: No amazing improvement in group size, but much more consistent. Rapid fire has gotten worse on the first shot, since I've loosened up my grip, but I think that's just growing pains. I'm really burning up ammo. Damn, .45 is expen$ive!! I'll let you know in a couple of months if there's major improvement.

Hey, Bird, I sure will. It won't be till next Thurs. Until then, lots of practice. Just today I've come along way out of my plateu. I've been experimenting with where along this imaginary line I actually make the shortening happen. I've been doing it at the finger side, of course. And although it's still mechanically the finger that is coming back, I can make it "feel" more like it is coming from anywhere along that line, all the way to the web. Very interesting element. I look forward to seeing what happens. For reference, I can shoot a slow-fire group of 7 rnds in 2" @ 10yds. I'd love to move that back 3 yds. (And then another 5!) As for this independant movement thing: I can move my finger no problem. I just can't apply any force to speak of without relying on a "grip" of some sort. I think what Brin's tip is allowing me to do is to compensate on the right-brain side rather than trying to think through it. The conceptual side of thought never has been much use in martial technique (real-time, that is, notwithstanding the inportance of study!) taylor

"Now without thinking about pulling the trigger, just "increase the pressure" between those two points." That is very cool indeed. Really helps. Feels much less agressive on the trigger. It's amking more of a circle instead of a "pull," if that makes sense. I'm sitting here doing it as I'm writing this, and I am tripping over how much this is changing my technique. !!! Thank you Brian! I'm going to go play! Was this in the book? did I miss it? !!!

I really appreciate the support here, guys, and if you say you're doing it, then I can do it. I'll just keep practicing. "The tip of the finger can be moved independent of the rest of the hand. (Do you leverage against your mouse to double-click?) " Well, try it REALLY SLOWLY, and REALLY RELAXEDLY. I did just now, and what I see is that I'm actually lifting a bit of the weight of my hand up onto the button. The finger moving idependantly? No. But I've been doing a lot of dry-fire today, trying to polish the stone as it were, and what it seems like is this: My grip must be sufficiently/proportionately steady and uniform across the backstrap (especially at the web) to allow a "pressure platform" for my index finger to press into without significant increase. Put another way, the squeeze effects a shortening of the distance between trigger finger pad and web of hand. If the grip is to remain unchanged the difference in that distance must be only in the front, and it must move perfectly straight back. Of course there must be no actual "space" between the web and backstrap/grip safety, but more precisely, there mustn't be even a significant change in pressure against these two (web & backstrap.) But this isn't because the finger moves "independantly" in a strict sense, but because the "backup" it requires isn't significantly beyond what is already provided by the grip itself. Long winded? Apologies. "I've seen both Michael Voigt and Rob Leatham do a remedial trigger control exercise/demonstration for their students.... (You may have seen Robbie do it with Jim Scoutten on American Shooter.) The student with the poor trigger control aims the gun and the teacher pulls the trigger. They aren't gripping the gun, they are just sticking their finger out and pulling, not leveraging against anything." Well, I have seen it, and I've been in class to do it/have it done. And this is what I was refering to when I said if I could put the gun in a machine, I could just lean back. Beleive it or not, Rob Leatham, et al, MUST counter that one- to three- pound pressure somewhere. If they did not, the would tip over forward. - I know it sounds absurd, but that's because most adult humans are so adept at making these tiny microadjustments with gravity, and within their own bodies; but it happens all the time. Pick up a glass in as relaxed a way as possible, and you'll see the counterbalancing going on, negotiating the load on your limb. Maybe this is way to conceptual for what should simply be a felt wisening, but I tried that first, and got stuck, so I started thinking. I'm so green, some of you are certainly laughing. But please, now that I've spit this out, ...any thoughts/comments? :-) Taylor

"Leveraging against your hand doesn't sound cool. That sounds like it can't help but move the gun around. The finger should be completely isolated. I'd say even the front half of the finger should be isolated from the rest of the finger and the rest of the hand. " Isolate the trigger finger. Sounds great. But every force has an equal and opposite, so if not the hand, then what am I bracing my finger against to execute the pull? If I could hold the gun on a machine, then I could just lean my body back, but otherwise, I don't see the mechanics. Do me a favor: Pull the trigger REALLY SLOWLY on your favorite 3+ # gun and let me know where your force is coming from. The first joint's connected to the... second joint; The second joint's connected to the... third joint - you get the idea. I'm stumped. I have a suspicion that in the realm of sub 2 # triggers, there is so little "bracing" going on that it's virtually imperceptible. -but I have no way of knowing. Thanks again!

Duh. Just yesterday I started a thread on trigger control over at the beginner's miscellany forum. Feel free to refer to it there. I get the feeling all of you guys are using 2# triggers. When I look really close at my pull, it seems I'm just compensating to the right as my squeeze sends the muzzle left. At slow speeds this isn't a problem. When you guys just hit the trigger a few times, dry, does the muzzle not move? Mine's a 3 1/2# pull (carry) which I feel is pretty light, but even that seems to require more leveraging against my hand than I'd like. Any tips, other than the usual? - or do I just need to keep hammering away? Much appreciated! BE - the book is great. I don't like trying to fit my supprt hand onto the backstrap, but the thumbs-thing was an instant improvement. [edited for spelling] (Edited by youngun at 9:22 pm on Oct. 30, 2001)

I've been doing a lot of dry-firing, and it's definitely paying off. But whenver it's not "takt up the slack, squeeze, squeeze, bang!" but more like "pow! pow! pow!" it becomes obvious how little I've really learned to isolate that pointer finger. When I dry-fire multiple shots, or just press the trigger four or five times, trying to hold the soght picture/alignment, it moves left. I'm feeling around, trying to see how these muscles can cooperate, but I could use a few tips, please! Should I be planting the backstrap into the meat of my palm, under the pinky sort-of, or rather in the crease between the "thumb meat" and "pinky meat"? Is the trigger finger leveraging off of the bottom knuckle or the base of the thumb (or somewhere else?) This is for a stock .45, by the way, if it matters. Thanks for any input! Taylor