Chris Leong Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Hi all Okay, so in my webwide peregrenations, I came across a gunsmith who told me about the rimless 38 super comp cartridge. Sounded fine to me (what do I know) and yet when I went to my reloading handbooks... voila! no voila, if you get my drift. I guess this must be a really new round? So then the question would come up - okay, so this round fits in a 38 super barrel? What mods would the gun have to have? It can't be the same ejector/extractor, or is it just a tune-up job? Yours in ponderance Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 Okay, so following on from this topic (and all my previous ones), am I right in believing that the following way is a viable way to get started? 1) get a regular Para Ord P16-40 and shoot production, maybe IDPA to start; 2) convert the P16-40 to 38 super or super comp by changing the mags and the top end (i.e. slide and contents) and this would be good for Modified or open 3) add a comped barrel, long mags and scope for open only I know I'm ignoring things like trigger weight and slide lightening, etc., and like most people I'll probably end up with a whole slew of guns, one for each task, but as a beginner, things are beginning to add up to a Para Ord P16 in 40S&W, or a similar gun (Kimber poly/bul, STI, SVI etc) that's double stacked 1911 type, as the best best for a starter competition pistol. I do have a Kimber, but it looks like I'd want to keep that solely for NRA Bullseye and Limited 10, and pretty much in unaltered condition, too. I can already outshoot this Kimber at my local range in rapid fire using the club's rental P16, but the single stack shoots a mean timed and slow fire... Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 (Edited by TravisT at 7:25 pm on June 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 Hi Travis Thanks for the info. Now you just KNOW I'm going to have to ask you about reloading data, etc., right? :-) Actually, I'd like to start with the simplest question: what die/conversion set for, say a Dillon 550? Then the next stuff - the bullets, I'm guessing, are the same. (I heard that Fiocchi has just started to make 38 SC brass too, by the way.) Where can I get hold of reload data? Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 (Edited by TravisT at 7:25 pm on June 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 I too looked at going with one of the 38's (the Jarrett) in a Para before I changed my mind and went with an STI in .40, sticking to Limited. I think it is inappropriate to use these boards to promote individual gunsmiths, but if you really want a Para and if you really want to know about souping up a .38 Super, then it would be worth your dime to call Dave Dawson or Paul at Dawson Precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 isn't the 38 super comp the 9x23??? I might be wrong, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 woops, I was thinking of the 9mm super comp, my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 If you can get your hands on a copy of the September/October 2000 of Front Sight (the USPSA mag) all your questions will be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Couple of points going back a bit I don't know if the p-16-40 meets USPSA production requirements but it definately does not meet world rules. Second .38 super is not allowed as a major cartridge in modified. I don't know why. Despite being a confirmed Open shooter, I would highly recommend getting the P-16-40 and shooting limited only for awhile. Experience the sport, try some other guns, experiment (carefully) with your own equipment and technique and have fun. Don't worry about trying dozens of different things right at the start. Go out and find out what you like and go from there. The Para will give you an excellent place to start. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 Thanks Pat for your insight. I'm 99.999% getting a P16-40 as a starter in Limited IPSC as per your suggestion. Do you, I wonder, have anything to say about the CZ 75 champ series as compared to the P16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Yeah, it's a tank...holy crap is it heavy! I would prefer a Tangfoglio if I wanted to go with this style ofr frame. I shot a P-9 for years and far prefer its quality and workmanship. Eric G. and Henning seem to do alright with them....lol. But I don't think you can do better for the money than the Para limited package. (and I'm not just saying that because they're made here in Canada) I've seen alot of new shooters start with this gun and with a change of sights, a magwell, and a trigger job, and you got a winner (they work pretty good out of the box too, those are just my recommendations) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 TT......dot tracked better with the rimless brass?? Any idea why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Hi Paul, Yes, with a conventional 38 Super case, the rim of the round that is being fed, slips into the rebate of the round beneath it. This causes varying degrees of dive. Which in turn, effects the angle at which the bullet contacts the ramp. If it contacts the ramp square (which it tends to do), this "bump" will show up in your dot. The rimless brass will use a "constant approach" to the ramp/chamber. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 Good OBserve TT. Your quite a sensitive fellow. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 TT, No S*%t...really?? That is so interesting. What about the TJ brass, it it the same as super comp? With regards to the way the bullet contacts the ramp...does the way the mag is tuned have any effect on dot tracking as well? What are your mags tuned to (shooting STI mags). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hi Paul, TJ is also rimless, yet the rebate is deeper and higher (consequently, the sizing die sizes more of the case. Well, there’s less of the case to size….if that makes sense). In the past, Todd would constantly experience jams with his long mag (maybe one reason why he loads so well!). Now with the rimless, his "stick" runs great. Unfortunately, it’s not cheap to switch over if you already have a cache of conventional 38 super brass. It’s made even more difficult if your gun runs reliable with rimmed You’re right on, the dimensions of the magazine lips has a huge effect on it as well. When I shot a Caspian, I had the front lips opened to the point that the round would go straight into the chamber….making no contact with the ramp. This coupled with rimless brass, resulted in an extremely linear dot-track. Obviously, you can open them too far. I haven’t done as much experimenting with the SV/STI yet, but I’m currently running my lips at 0.34" at the front. Have fun, TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hi Travis, Thanks for the info....very informititve. I have noticed that with some guns, especially single stacks, you can adjust the mag lips so you have that direct line into the chamber as you referred to. I have experimented with STI mags and have actually had jams where the nose of the bullet got stuck almost straight up, nose of the bullet touching the upper part of the chamber, because the lips were to wide in the front. I have mine adjusted between .345-.350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I find the SVI mags come much better from the factory as far as lips go. STI's definatly need tweaking (get me my hammer and pliers..lol) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Pat, That's funny, I have just the opposite experience..... Once I got my mags tuned I had them hard chromed....slick as snot now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para man Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Definitly start slow.... ( TRUST ME ) I just started shooting at the begining of last year.. Ive tried to play with different toys and believe me find a gun ( 1 GUN ) that your comfortable with and shoot the day lights out of it all year.. Than in the off season find a new toy to play with.. Im playin with a para p-14........... Ive shot springfield trophy match....Kimbers... custom caspians you name it and the para is the best Ive shot.. Get a p-16 and shot ..shot ..shot.. Then move up to a .38 super comp.. Thats what I have now.. Shell plate #5 pin #3 for the comp brass will do the trick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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