Ctbreitwieser Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I'm currently shooting a 16" dpms with a carbine gas system for 3 gun matches. I want to build a dedicated 3 gun rifle and I'm deciding on upper parts. Just wondering if I go with an 18" barrel, rifle length gas system, adjustable gas block, and lightwieght bcg, how much difference will I notice in recoil reduction? How much difference would I notice if just switched to a rifle length system with standard semiauto bcg? I'm just wondering if it's really going to be worth it, or if I'd be better off just sticking with what I have. I'm not trying to sound as if my rifle is holding me back, but I do enjoy having cool stuff. But I also don't want to spend money on an upper that won't be much different than what I have. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 A compositor will help more than any of the other items combined. I have a 16" carbine gas gun with a JM comp that shoots almost as nice as my dedicated 3gun fully loaded guns... save the money and buy ammo and a $35 JM comp and have fun Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 A compositor will help more than any of the other items combined. I have a 16" carbine gas gun with a JM comp that shoots almost as nice as my dedicated 3gun fully loaded guns... save the money and buy ammo and a $35 JM comp and have fun Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Guess I should have mentioned that... I do have a JM brake on my current gun. And yeah, best $35 I've spent on a gun. It's crazy how much difference it makes. That's why I can't imagine all the extra stuff making that much difference. But if it really does, it'd be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It might not make much sense, but your skill level and your familiarity with your rifle will effect how different it "feels". I was pretty green to the sport and only had a few thousand rounds through an AR when I got all excited and threw in all the race goodies. I was pretty disappointed at the time, the difference was noticeable but not like trading in your Prius for a Ferrari. A year later and I've got a lot more rounds downrange, focused practice, and most importantly a highly refined (and ever evolving) stance, I got to shoot a buddies rifle that's exactly the same as mine as it came out of the box. The difference blew me away. It was very much the Prius vs. Ferrari I imagined originally. The funny thing was when my buddy (a plinker type, not a competitor) compared them. He couldn't really discern a significant difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reptoid Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 An 18" with rifle length gas, a lightened BCG, and lightened buffer will be noticibly softer and will stay on target better. If you're not sure about $ versus results, I would suggest you get a friend or squad member to let you fire a few rounds thru thier's back to back with yours. You can always do the 18" barrel with rifle gas and I suggest adjustable gas block. Then you could shoot it on your current lower with the std BCG to compare the difference before investing in the additional parts. Bear in mind; if/when you add a lightened BCG and buffer, it will allow you to turn the gas down some which will reduce both rearward and forward recoil impulses (rear from less gas, forward from less weight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thanks for the input. I'm not sure how to say this without sounding like an a-hole, and hopefully I dont, but I am very familiar with the AR platform. I own quite a few, and have fired thousands of rounds through many variations of the gun, I've just never shot a "race gun". I feel like I have a good shooting stance and am confident in my shooting abilities. I do NOT think I am great, and I know there are a thousand things that can make me better. But I do think a more "niche" gun could make me a little faster. Anyways, I hope that makes sense and doesn't make me sound arrogant. I guess I just wanted to give a little background that I'm not totally new to the platform and trying to buy my skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 An 18" with rifle length gas, a lightened BCG, and lightened buffer will be noticibly softer and will stay on target better. If you're not sure about $ versus results, I would suggest you get a friend or squad member to let you fire a few rounds thru thier's back to back with yours. You can always do the 18" barrel with rifle gas and I suggest adjustable gas block. Then you could shoot it on your current lower with the std BCG to compare the difference before investing in the additional parts. Bear in mind; if/when you add a lightened BCG and buffer, it will allow you to turn the gas down some which will reduce both rearward and forward recoil impulses (rear from less gas, forward from less weight) Thank you, that's a good idea. Problem I don't know anyone with a gun like that right now. Maybe I'll ask around at the next match and see if I can try someone's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 No arrogance detected. Just felt the need to post the above because I've seen so many people who couldn't tell any difference, and also heard the same question from people with fifteen total rounds through a gun. I see your in Indiana, not sure how far you drive for matches but your welcome to try my rifle at any Northern Il match you run into me at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 No arrogance detected. Just felt the need to post the above because I've seen so many people who couldn't tell any difference, and also heard the same question from people with fifteen total rounds through a gun. I see your in Indiana, not sure how far you drive for matches but your welcome to try my rifle at any Northern Il match you run into me at. Thanks for the offer, but I live in the southern part of the state and shoot most of my matches in Kentucky. For some reason the northerners have all kinds of matches up there and we don't have any. Kinda sucks because I'd like to try my SBRs sometime but i don't want to take them out of state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There is a difference that you will notice. There will be a lot of variables as mentioned. Skill level make the most difference in the noticing the variables. Tuned rifle (comp, LWBC, LW Buffer system) will be softer. Up close you will see the difference, but when you stretch the distance on multiple targets, it really shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Does a lightwieght bcg require a special buffer, or does a standard rifle length buffer work ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 You need an adjustable gas block if you run light bcg or buffer. If you dont have an AGB and tune it correctly you can damage your rifle and you will possibly have more felt recoil (secondary impulse). That said if you have an AGB the more weight you can take out of the carrier and buffer the lighter the felt recoil will be and you will have a faster lock time as well. But no matter what you have to tune your rifle and load so that the gun functions properly and is reliable. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 But to directly answer your question... generally no but it depends on lots of other factors. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 No you can't damage your rifle if you run a light carrier with full gas. To optimize the rifles performance it is really helpful, but you sure wont hurt it if you don't have an adjustable gas block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Kurt, thanks for clarifying that. I had mistakenly been told that the carrier can get far back enough into the receiver extension if super over gassed that it can cause damage, but thinking about how the silly gun works, I cant see how that is possible. Thanks. I will purge that bad info from my small mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 You sure will damage your rifle if you run a carbine buffer in a RIFLE LENGTH buffer tube! I think that is what you were trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Ok, I thought of another question. If using an adjustable gas block, would there be a noticeable difference in recoil with a 16" midlength and 18" rifle? (All other things being equal) My thinking leads me to believe that the adjustable gas block would be able to cut back the excess on the middy to make it equal to the rifle length. Edited February 12, 2016 by Ctbreitwieser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I am running a 16 inch middy with a adjustable gas block and a ar weight carrier and PA M4-72 comp. Recoil is virtually nonexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 There is a noticeable difference between the rifle and mid length system even with adjustable gas. If I understand correctly it has to do with the pressure at the respective port locations. The adjustable block only adjusts gas volume, it can't change pressure. Or so I'm told.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctbreitwieser Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hmm, well I really think od prefer a 16" barrel to an 18", but ifor the 18" would be noticibly less than maybe the extra 2" wouldn't be so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 You would probably only notice any real differences between a 16 inch middy and a 18 inch in the handling or over a chrono. Perceived recoil between the two might be to small to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 You would probably only notice any real differences between a 16 inch middy and a 18 inch in the handling or over a chrono. Perceived recoil between the two might be to small to tell.I'm going to have to disagree. I have a 14.5" mid, 16" mid and a 16" intermediate gas. There is definitely a difference in recoil going from mid to intermediate, I'll say the same for 18" rifle gas systems also even though I don't have a ton of time behind one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech32 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I have rifle length gas, adjustable gas block, JP LMOS bolt and carrier, and the JP silent captured spring. It is very, smooth and soft shooting. If I shoot someone else's off the shelf rifle I notice tons of difference now that I am used to my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I have always run my aluminum carriers ( since 1999.....yes we had J.P. aluminum carriers even back then although we did have to wrestle the dinosaurs for them) fully gassed. When they get a bit dirty, I found it really helps with reliability. Any old way, you will get a far softer gun with longer gas tubes than you ever will with an adjustable gas block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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