Missouri Bullets .45 Loading Data

[terrymixon]

Hi all,

I'm not a new reloader, but I've only been doing it for a few years, and only in copper. However, with the new (to us in the US) Hi-Tek coatings, I decided to try some in my Glocks. I'm starting with the .45 and I ordered Hi-Tek coated samples for the MBC Bullseye #1 200gr and Bullseye #2 185gr. The only powders I have on hand are a bunch of Titgroup and one pound of HP-38.

​I've been reloading 9mm and .40 Hornady HAP bullets with Titegroup for a couple of years in my Lee Classic Turret, so I know there's not a lot of room for charging mistakes and I've got that handled.

​Looking at the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition, I see the Lyman #452630 bullet looks and weighs the same as the Bullseye #1, so I'm hoping the loading data for it is good in that one. It suggests an OAL of 1.235 and 4.8-5.4 grains of Titegroup or 5.4-6.1 of 231, so HP-38 should be the same. I'll be using CCI large pistol primers.

​Now my newbie questions. I did look for specifics, but didn't find what I was looking for. I'm loading for low powered plinking rounds. I've been shooting the 9mm and .40 at starting loads and am happy with that. This is my first time working with lead, and though I'm not intimidated (I've been doing my homework), this is the first time I'm working on something without a recipe. I know I'll be doing higher powered rounds when I start competing, so I'll want to be sure that I have an idea where the max is, too.

I don't have a chrono, but it's on my list of things to get next year. For the moment, I feel relatively safe since I want to stay low speed. I'll definitely get one before I start going higher.

My apologies if these have been covered before. I did look, but my search foo might have been insufficiently advanced.

​1. Is my assumption that I can use the load data for the 200gr Lyman #452630 with the MBC Bullseye #1 a safe one to make? If not, I'd love any suggestions on changes.

​2. The MBC Bullseye #2 185 grain is shaped pretty much like the Bullseye #1, so none of the bullets in the Lyman manual match it. I've read in a number of places that you can use the load data for a heavier cast bullet with a lighter one. Is that safe in this case? I know that I'd have to change the OAL for the lighter round, so any suggestions on that (in addition to the powder weights) would be greatly appreciated. And if you've used either of these two powders with this round, I'd love a little more certainty in the starting and max load data.

3. I measured the MBC bullets and most of them come in at .452. A few came in at .453 unless I pressed firmly on my measuring device. Is that fine, so long as the bullet chambers and feeds correctly? Or, do I need to size them again? I was operating under the assumption that MBC sized them after they coated them, but I don't know that I read that anywhere. Or is this a non-issue that I just don't know from not casting and shooting lead before?

4. What am I not thinking of? I've only been doing this for a few years and I taught myself. I'm a careful, thoughtful reloader that does as much research as I can, so I'm working hard on learning the casting side. I'll roll my own next year and I'm looking forward to it. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

​Thank in advance,

Terry

[njl]

Those are both SWCs. I hope your Glocks are 21's...or you like experimenting. The 30s are known to be finicky when it comes to feeding SWCs. You might get them working with just the right OAL.

I have no experience with HP-38, and though I've used a bit of Titegroup, not with coated bullets. I just checked Hodgdon's web site for Titegroup and 200gr bullets, and the data doesn't quite make sense. They give a higher range (higher start, higher max) for 200gr LSWC than for 200gr JHP. The velocities for the LSWC are higher...that much makes sense. I'd be tempted to start a little lower than their starting charge...maybe 4.6gr, hoping for low 800s fps.

[terrymixon]

Those are both SWCs. I hope your Glocks are 21's...or you like experimenting. The 30s are known to be finicky when it comes to feeding SWCs. You might get them working with just the right OAL.

I have no experience with HP-38, and though I've used a bit of Titegroup, not with coated bullets. I just checked Hodgdon's web site for Titegroup and 200gr bullets, and the data doesn't quite make sense. They give a higher range (higher start, higher max) for 200gr LSWC than for 200gr JHP. The velocities for the LSWC are higher...that much makes sense. I'd be tempted to start a little lower than their starting charge...maybe 4.6gr, hoping for low 800s fps.

And the education begins. No, I have a Glock 30. I didn't know they had issues with SWCs. Thankfully, I only ordered the sample packs, so if I can't finesse them, I can try a different style. I see the MBC has some truncated cone and round nose offerings in .45. Thanks for the insight.

Edited December 24, 2015 by terrymixon

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You can use the same powder drop for both bullets, the 185's will be slower and will feel oh so soft to shoot. You will also have to see how much the Glock barrel picks up with the coating on the bullet. Some get a lot and others not very much at all. You will have to play with overall length to get the SWC to feed in any pistol. Thanks, Eric

[terrymixon]

Hello: You can use the same powder drop for both bullets, the 185's will be slower and will feel oh so soft to shoot. You will also have to see how much the Glock barrel picks up with the coating on the bullet. Some get a lot and others not very much at all. You will have to play with overall length to get the SWC to feed in any pistol. Thanks, Eric

Thanks. I'll keep playing with the OAL to see if I can find a spot they will cycle. I'll keep an eye on the leading when I shoot. I'm hoping the coating will keep that from being a problem.

I loaded some dummy rounds to test the feed today. Yeah, I have some experimenting to do. I think I might have a problem with my Lee powder through expanding die. The 45 set is new and I hadn't used it before. This one die seems to be binding and I have to use way too much force to get the expanded brass back out of it, pretty much no matter how far I open the bell.

Oddly, if I don't run the full length sizing/decapping die first, it doesn't bind nearly as much. Something isn't right.

And when I use an impact puller to get the bullets back out, the coating is rubbed off around the uppermost area all the way around. Sometimes the lower area, too. That can't be right. It happens even on ones I don't use the factory die with the crimp ran all the way out so as not to crimp.

I'm not sure if I have a problem with the dies or the bullets with the exposing of the lead. I suspect I'll have to send the dies back and get replacements before I can eliminate them as culprits and move on to getting the rest of this sorted out.

I've never used the MBC coated bullets before. I don't need to size them, do I? I thought they would be done at manufacture.

[Steve RA]

If you size it first it will just make it - the expanding/belling portion of the powder measure - grip more tightly. Take it apart and polish that part and it will work more smoothly by reducing the diameter ever so slightly and also making it smoother.

You do, however, need to size the case before the powder measure.

[terrymixon]

If you size it first it will just make it - the expanding/belling portion of the powder measure - grip more tightly. Take it apart and polish that part and it will work more smoothly by reducing the diameter ever so slightly and also making it smoother.

You do, however, need to size the case before the powder measure.

I'll do that. Thanks. With the die rolled all the way in, to flare the case as much as possible, it's only getting to .452-.453. The bullet will just start. It seems like my .40 and 9mm dies flared it significantly more.

[TDA]

And when I use an impact puller to get the bullets back out, the coating is rubbed off around the uppermost area all the way around. Sometimes the lower area, too. That can't be right. It happens even on ones I don't use the factory die with the crimp ran all the way out so as not to crimp.

I had that problem with Lee 38 Special dies. The seating die was too small and was removing all of the belling as the case entered it shaving the bullet bare as it seated it.

Switched to a Dillon die and never saw any shaving again.

All of my dies are Dillon and have never had an issue with them. My first and last set of Lee dies...

[terrymixon]

And when I use an impact puller to get the bullets back out, the coating is rubbed off around the uppermost area all the way around. Sometimes the lower area, too. That can't be right. It happens even on ones I don't use the factory die with the crimp ran all the way out so as not to crimp.

I had that problem with Lee 38 Special dies. The seating die was too small and was removing all of the belling as the case entered it shaving the bullet bare as it seated it.

Switched to a Dillon die and never saw any shaving again.

All of my dies are Dillon and have never had an issue with them. My first and last set of Lee dies...

That's it. I messed with is some and mostly fixed the problem. Yea! It's my first time with lead and I didn't think about the way it seats and crimps. One more lesson learned. Thanks.

[BK63]

While I have been on plenty of sites where I see people shooting cast out of their Glocks, I don't do it with the stock barrel. I dropped a KKM barrel into my G30 and I shoot lots and lots of hard cast from Missouri bullet with no problems. Glock says don't do it with their barrel and I figure I would like to keep all my digits. A good after market barrel is worth it in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents I guess.

Edited December 27, 2015 by BK63

[terrymixon]

While I have been on plenty of sites where I see people shooting cast out of their Glocks, I don't do it with the stock barrel. I dropped a KKM barrel into my G30 and I shoot lots and lots of hard cast from Missouri bullet with no problems. Glock says don't do it with their barrel and I figure I would like to keep all my digits. A good after market barrel is worth it in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents I guess.

I was going to do that before I found out about the hi-Tek coating. Everything I've found indicates it's safe in Glock barrels. If I see leading Once I test them, I'll back off and get an aftermarket barrel. Thanks.

[BK63]

While I have been on plenty of sites where I see people shooting cast out of their Glocks, I don't do it with the stock barrel. I dropped a KKM barrel into my G30 and I shoot lots and lots of hard cast from Missouri bullet with no problems. Glock says don't do it with their barrel and I figure I would like to keep all my digits. A good after market barrel is worth it in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents I guess.

I was going to do that before I found out about the hi-Tek coating. Everything I've found indicates it's safe in Glock barrels. If I see leading Once I test them, I'll back off and get an aftermarket barrel. Thanks.

I've used some of the hi-tek coated bullets. While the leading was less, I still saw some. Not terrible but I still had to scrub the barrels out when I got home. They weren't clean like if I was shooting jacketed. Since I shoot a LOT of cast, it was worth it to buy the aftermarket barrel for peace of mind.

[terrymixon]

While I have been on plenty of sites where I see people shooting cast out of their Glocks, I don't do it with the stock barrel. I dropped a KKM barrel into my G30 and I shoot lots and lots of hard cast from Missouri bullet with no problems. Glock says don't do it with their barrel and I figure I would like to keep all my digits. A good after market barrel is worth it in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents I guess.

I was going to do that before I found out about the hi-Tek coating. Everything I've found indicates it's safe in Glock barrels. If I see leading Once I test them, I'll back off and get an aftermarket barrel. Thanks.

I've used some of the hi-tek coated bullets. While the leading was less, I still saw some. Not terrible but I still had to scrub the barrels out when I got home. They weren't clean like if I was shooting jacketed. Since I shoot a LOT of cast, it was worth it to buy the aftermarket barrel for peace of mind.

And that's certainly in the realm of possibility. If the test rounds show some leading, I'll pick up an aftermarket barrel and be safe. Thanks for the input.

​I just ordered some of the .45 200 MBC IDP4-XD (RNFP) and Oddball (RN) bullets to see if I can make them feed better.

[BK63]

I have been using both the RN and RNFP from Missouri for years in a bunch of guns from a G30, several 1911's and a Taurus PT145. They work well in all of them.

[terrymixon]

I have been using both the RN and RNFP from Missouri for years in a bunch of guns from a G30, several 1911's and a Taurus PT145. They work well in all of them.

Awesome. Now all I need to do is work up the load and hope I don't get leading.

​The Lyman Cast manual doesn't have a similar kind of bullet in the 200gr weight class. There is a RN 225 grain. Would I be off base in using the minimum for that in the smaller 200 RN and RNFPs?

[BK63]

I go by the weight of the bullet not the shape. Use the weight data. I found that if the cast bullet is sized right you can load them pretty hot. I used 240 grain hard cast from Missouri in a 44 mag at the same load I use for jacketed and I get no leading and it's a hot load. If the bullet is sized right for the gun you should get good results. In the 45 you aren't pushing them that fast. Most loads are 800 to 900 fps.

I only use Unique and Bullseye with the 45. 200 RNFP I use 6.5 Unique or 5.2 Bullseye and have good results. 230 RN cast I use 5.5 Unique. Just start at the minimum load for the bullet weight and work up from there.

[JD45]

I didn't even read all that, but try Clays for the .45.

I've tried lots of powders except VV, and I stuck with Clays.

[jsg]

I did not see you mention it but are you seating and crimping in the same step? This can be an issue with lead bullets. If you are, I would suggest buying a separate die to seat the bullets with no crimp then run them through a second die to crimp.

Edited January 8, 2016 by jsg

[terrymixon]

I did not see you mention it but are you seating and crimping in the same step? This can be an issue with lead bullets. If you are, I would suggest buying a separate die to seat the bullets with no crimp then run them through a second die to crimp.

I'm doing the two separately, now that I figured that out. I just got some non-SWC bullets in and can test them to see how they fit in dummy rounds. The taper crimp is delivered via a Lee factory crimp die, so I'll have to be sure that it isn't swaging the bullet.

​I'm waiting to shoot them until I get a Storm Wolf barrel next month, so results will be delayed. The wife had dropped the budget hammer on me.

Edited January 9, 2016 by terrymixon

[victorcharlie]

I've been shooting Missouri Bullet company' 230 grain softballs for some time now. I seat and crimp in separate stages and use a lee factory crimp die to apply the crimp. 5.8 grains of unique works well for me.

[terrymixon]

I've been shooting Missouri Bullet company' 230 grain softballs for some time now. I seat and crimp in separate stages and use a lee factory crimp die to apply the crimp. 5.8 grains of unique works well for me.

That's good to know. Thanks!

[Postal Bob]

I use the Missouri 200 gr semiwadcutter over 4.6-4.7 gr bullseye. But I use the IDP#1, not the bullseye #1. The bullseye #1 is softer lead, meant for lower velocities under 800 fps. I originally used them, but found the IDP#1 gave better accuracy at major pf loads.