Changing platforms

[Linkscoach]

So for someone looking to change platforms for a SSP pistol would the 320 be a safer bet over the M&P right now? I went through several drills over the weekend comparing an M&P to my 17 and I was a quicker and more accurate with the M&P on a majority of the drills. I've shot Glocks for 2 years and haven't shot an M&P at all so I was pretty surprised at the results. Seems like getting an accurate M&P out of the box is still a crap shoot though.

I only have a few slow fire rounds through a full size 320 (less than 50). I didn't like the take down lever but that has been addressed now. It also shot about 4" high but that's an easy fix. I know they are the new hot item right now but it seems like most of the hype is well deserved.

I guess my biggest concern is ending up with an M&P that isn't accurate. I would rather spend money on magazines and ammo and not a new barrel.

[MilkMyDuds]

Well, you get accuracy now with APEX barrels:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223797

I just finished fitting my semi-drop-in, and will test it out tomorrow at the range and report back. I have BarSto gunsmith fitted, KKM drop-in, and now the APEX semi-drop-in. Would be an interesting comparison.

[BillR1]

Well, you get accuracy now with APEX barrels:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223797

I just finished fitting my semi-drop-in, and will test it out tomorrow at the range and report back. I have BarSto gunsmith fitted, KKM drop-in, and now the APEX semi-drop-in. Would be an interesting comparison.

The problem with an aftermarket barrel is the overall cost. My buddy just did one, and he has over $1K in an M&P!

Gun $600

Sights $120

Barrel $200 +$35 for fitting

Apex trigger $100

For $1K, I could buy a CZ Shadow and have a WAY better gun.

I've had (several) M&Ps with KKM barrels, and my P320 will shoot circles around them.

[Linkscoach]

Well, you get accuracy now with APEX barrels:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223797

I just finished fitting my semi-drop-in, and will test it out tomorrow at the range and report back. I have BarSto gunsmith fitted, KKM drop-in, and now the APEX semi-drop-in. Would be an interesting comparison.

The problem with an aftermarket barrel is the overall cost. My buddy just did one, and he has over $1K in an M&P!

Gun $600

Sights $120

Barrel $200 +$35 for fitting

Apex trigger $100

I've had (several) M&Ps with KKM barrels, and my P320 will shoot circles around them.

Sights and cost of the pistol are a wash. I going to have that no matter which pistol I switch to. The last statement about accuracy between the 320 and M&P is what makes me wonder about M&P's though.

It bothers me that I have to doubt the accuracy of a brand new pistol.

[wgj3]

I have and/or have owned no fewer than 7 M&P uppers. I have not yet had one that let me down in the accuracy dept. I have replaced barrels in 3 of them, but only because I wanted an extended, threaded version. I think that the M&P's are great pistols and have pretty solid aftermarket support as well.

In fact, if anyone knows where I can pick up another lower, I'm interested.

[aandabooks]

I just got my third M&P I've ever owned. This one I put a 4.95" SL .357sig barrel in. I've never had accuracy issues with any of mine. I've owned them in .40 and .45 in the past.

[BillR1]

The M&Ps are not bad guns, but most people end up swapping the barrel to get decent accuracy and putting the Apex trigger parts in. The total cost is way more than a P320 that already has a good trigger and superb accuracy.

[Linkscoach]

The M&Ps are not bad guns, but most people end up swapping the barrel to get decent accuracy and putting the Apex trigger parts in. The total cost is way more than a P320 that already has a good trigger and superb accuracy.

Good points but aren't most people paying for trigger work on the Sigs too?

I'm wondering how many people actually end up swapping barrels on their M&P's? It's a hard stat to track down.

[BillR1]

The M&Ps are not bad guns, but most people end up swapping the barrel to get decent accuracy and putting the Apex trigger parts in. The total cost is way more than a P320 that already has a good trigger and superb accuracy.

Good points but aren't most people paying for trigger work on the Sigs too?

I'm wondering how many people actually end up swapping barrels on their M&P's? It's a hard stat to track down.

The factory triggers on the P320s are light years ahead of a factory M&P trigger...really no comparison! The M&P 45 I had came with THE WORST factory trigger I've ever seen on any firearm. I've done some polishing myself on the Sigs, but so far I haven't seen the need to send the gun off to Bruce Gray...yet! Apex parts for the M&P are cheaper than a trip to a gunsmith, but unlike the Sigs the M&P trigger work is almost always needed.

[ranger]

We have lots of people shooting M&Ps in NW GA with stock barrel and just an APEX DAEK or Competition trigger kit. Some use stock barrel and use the APEX replacement trigger in IDPA ESP. IMHO, the "M&P is not accurate" is overblown. One of our top M&P shooters bought a 320 and it has been back to the factory twice.

I see shooters go the next "shiney" pistol constantly and in a few months or a year they are back to the Glock or the M&P in our area. I just did it with the CZ P09 - I am back to my M&P PRO with APEX trigger.

[MilkMyDuds]

Well, you get accuracy now with APEX barrels:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223797

I just finished fitting my semi-drop-in, and will test it out tomorrow at the range and report back. I have BarSto gunsmith fitted, KKM drop-in, and now the APEX semi-drop-in. Would be an interesting comparison.

The problem with an aftermarket barrel is the overall cost. My buddy just did one, and he has over $1K in an M&P!

Gun $600

Sights $120

Barrel $200 +$35 for fitting

Apex trigger $100

For $1K, I could buy a CZ Shadow and have a WAY better gun.

I've had (several) M&Ps with KKM barrels, and my P320 will shoot circles around them.

Gun - $500 (I bought it from KyGunCo for $489 including everything)

Sights - If you want full adjustable yes $120 for front + rear Dawson. However, CZ front + rear fully adjustable will cost you much more

Barrel - $200 (not sure why $35 for fitting - I am not handy and I did the fitting myself under 30 min)

Apex trigger - $80 currently in promotion in several places

KKMs drop-ins are as lose as factory barrels. I do agree stock MPs cannot compete with some of the stock plastic guns in accuracy department.

However, no one shoots stock guns in matches.

I have shot P320 and I think it's stock trigger is not nearly half good as the Walther PPQ M2 stock trigger. The only neat thing about P320 trigger is its auto reset feature that allows you to dry fire continuously without having to rack slide everytime. If I have to shoot a stock trigger, I would choose PPQ M2. Do you see many people shoot PPQ M2? No. Obviously, having the best stock trigger is not a good selling point.

To get a decent CZ for competition, you will end up spending $1500. I did just that - CZC Custom Shadow plus VZ grips etc. If you are handy, you can probably buy all the parts and do all the custom work yourself for $1200, but it won't be 100% as good as the CZC work. You still need to do the trigger work, change sights, etc. The only thing you don't need to work on CZ is to change barrel, but CZ barrels have really short throat, and most people have to ream it (maybe for $50 if you know a gunsmith)

I do agree a competition ready MP9 Pro 5'' can cost as much as CZ Shadow, if you do all the work yourself on both.

[USA]

People knock the M&P because, among other things, its trigger, but I look at it as a positive. Until recently when Apex started branching into other platforms, what other platform besides the M&P could you customize the trigger to your exact needs. In one platform, I have a flat faced trigger for limited/3-gun, a competition action enhancement kit for production, and a Apex sear, USB and polymer trigger with stock springs for everything else. I have also used the DCAEK in the past and was happy with it. To me this is a virtue of the platform and not a deficiency. I also like that the M&P has a low initial purchase point, which allows me to own multiple ones. And, in my opinion, the latest iteration of the stock trigger is not bad, albeit kind of heavy, and they have addressed the reset, which I think is overrated anyways at speed.

With respect to accuracy, it's been a long time coming, but it's finally been addressed, in spades! That being said, I've shot my M&Ps for years in matches and didn't feel handicapped, granted I'm not a GM or anything like that. And once I get the Apex barrel, I'm hopeful it will provide superior accuracy to many platforms that cost much more, like custom hand fitted 2011s, etc. I understand the 2011 has other things going for it, but at what price?

Yes, I wish S&W made "better" choices in certain areas, but as the M&P has matured, I love the way it feels and shoots, that it is inexpensive and reliable, and that I can customize it the way I (emphasis) like it without breaking the bank. If there is anything you don't like, someone has probably made something to change it. And just because you don't like something doesn't make it a flaw. It's personal preference.

I know a lot of people like to buy a gun and be done with it and get upset when they have to spend more money on it. That doesn't bother me. The changes people make to the M&P are probably changes everyone else would make to another platform, except perhaps the barrel, but even then I see a lot of people with aftermarket barrels in platforms that are supposedly accurate out of the box so who knows.

That being said, I think the Sig P320 is probably a nice gun too. I've only handled it at a gun show and read about it. But whatever advantages the new polymer guns may have that have come out since the M&P, they haven't been enough to make me go through the trouble of switching, and I can't emphasize this enough, I have a ton of M&Ps that are all slightly different, intentionally so, yet share a common platform.

You can probably do the same with Glocks, but I wanted to buy from an American firearm company. That being said, I've gotten over that too. LOL. I'm considering CZs too, not to replace my M&Ps, but just to give DA/SA guns a try. The CZs seem to be a good value gun too.

[Linkscoach]

Well, it's a done deal. Picked up a M&P Pro from Quantico today. Cleaned it up, made it to the range and had time to put 150 rounds through it. Love it. Tracks much better for me than my 17. Wasn't planning on buying a Pro Series but I like it a lot and feel like I'm not going to have to do much if anything to it except buy more magazines and shoot it. Tax put me a little over budget but I'm okay with that.

Take up on the trigger is a little gritty out of the box but I'm sure it'll smooth out. Break and reset is really nice. I like it better than my 17 with a Vanek GSSF trigger in it.

The stock Novak sights are okay. The fiber rod is really big. Seems like the install was overdone a little bit. I don't like the stock green anyway so I'm going to put a red one in tomorrow and see if I can get the melted end a little smaller. It's huge from the factory. It also shoots to the dot and not the top of the sight. Will take a little bit to get used to that.

One disappointing part is both the front and rear sights were not centered up. It's shooting 3-4" left but should be an easy fix.

Had 3 failure to feeds from slide lock using the slide release. Was shooting Freedom 124 HP Xtreme. Not sure what that's all about. I have about 700 rounds of that ammo left so hopefully it clears up. Might need to do a little polishing on the feed ramp. Everything else was fine.

So about accuracy. So far it's fine. It was really windy today so shooting groups was a little difficult. Was keeping five shot groups in the black from 25 yards on a slow fire NRA target. The pistol will shoot if I do my part. Plate rack from 25 yards was pretty easy once I figured out where to hold.

I know it's a honeymoon period but I really like this pistol. I think the Sig is fine but I don't feel like I'm giving up anything by going with the M&P. Plus the M&P just fits me really well. I don't have enough rounds through it to make any really conclusions yet but it just feels so effortless to shoot compared to my Glock. Kind of hard to explain. It's going to be a lot of fun to get to know this pistol.

Thanks all for the input.

[Kaldor]

Well, it's a done deal. Picked up a M&P Pro from Quantico today. Cleaned it up, made it to the range and had time to put 150 rounds through it. Love it. Tracks much better for me than my 17. Wasn't planning on buying a Pro Series but I like it a lot and feel like I'm not going to have to do much if anything to it except buy more magazines and shoot it. Tax put me a little over budget but I'm okay with that.

Take up on the trigger is a little gritty out of the box but I'm sure it'll smooth out. Break and reset is really nice. I like it better than my 17 with a Vanek GSSF trigger in it.

The stock Novak sights are okay. The fiber rod is really big. Seems like the install was overdone a little bit. I don't like the stock green anyway so I'm going to put a red one in tomorrow and see if I can get the melted end a little smaller. It's huge from the factory. It also shoots to the dot and not the top of the sight. Will take a little bit to get used to that.

One disappointing part is both the front and rear sights were not centered up. It's shooting 3-4" left but should be an easy fix.

Had 3 failure to feeds from slide lock using the slide release. Was shooting Freedom 124 HP Xtreme. Not sure what that's all about. I have about 700 rounds of that ammo left so hopefully it clears up. Might need to do a little polishing on the feed ramp. Everything else was fine.

So about accuracy. So far it's fine. It was really windy today so shooting groups was a little difficult. Was keeping five shot groups in the black from 25 yards on a slow fire NRA target. The pistol will shoot if I do my part. Plate rack from 25 yards was pretty easy once I figured out where to hold.

I know it's a honeymoon period but I really like this pistol. I think the Sig is fine but I don't feel like I'm giving up anything by going with the M&P. Plus the M&P just fits me really well. I don't have enough rounds through it to make any really conclusions yet but it just feels so effortless to shoot compared to my Glock. Kind of hard to explain. It's going to be a lot of fun to get to know this pistol.

Thanks all for the input.

I have the same gun. I prefer to hold low at 6 oclock, so I changed the sights. Trigger does get better, but I never was satisfied so around 1000 rounds I changed it to an Apex. I had the 1 dot barrel, accuracy was kind of all over the place. Put a KKM in, accuracy got better.

[Linkscoach]

Well I couldn't get the front sight to budge. Took it to a guy I trust and he couldn't get the sight to move either. The rear sight would have to hang over the edge of the slide to get it shooting POA so I guess I'll be calling Smith next week.

Never seen a set of sights this tight.

[Dr Mitch]

Res ipsa loquitor

[USA]

The front sight is tight. I applied some lube. I also just used hammer and punch. That being said, you have to make sure you remove sight from left to right when looking from the rear of the gun to the front of the gun as the dove tail is tapered.

[Linkscoach]

Tried soaking in lube and hammer and punch. Both the front and rear sights were offset to the right. Rear sight moved okay but that front sight is a huge no go.