Metronome Drills

[postal]

Metronome drills

After reading some old threads here I downloaded an electronic metronome, and tried some dry fire drills with it in an attempt to speed up my transitions, I liked it so I purchased a real one to take to the range with me

What I wanted to know is if anyone has some specific drills to be used with it ?

I did the math and figured out where my transitions are in bpm ,and where I would like them to be 180bpm=.33 and so on ,all I have been doing it dry firing at the target back and forth center to head ,target to target ,left or right etc

It was a bit of a strain on the yes at first, but I quickly adapted to it, and can see it being a bit useful

thanks for the help

[Flexmoney]

I think my shot timer will perform the same function. (Pact Mk-IV)

[postal]

I think my shot timer will perform the same function.  (Pact Mk-IV)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gee thanks flex I will remember that when I use it {lol}

[postal]

Well I actually tried it live fire with an ear bud, I managed to shave .10 seconds of my transitions first time out, it is amazing how it changes the concept of time when doing it, at first I had thought I was doing transitions as fast as I could at this my point in training, but after timing my self, then setting the cadence to my time, then increasing my cadence, I was impressed with how well it worked

It has also made me notice at a match other people pace a bit better

[David Benzick]

Postal,

I've used the metradome function on my timer and had some success with it.

The drill is three paper targets at about 15-20 yards and two A zone steel or USPs that won't fall set between the paper. Vary the target spacing for short and long transitions.

My timer starts the cadance after the first shot so I'll set the cadance at .7 seconds and do a couple of 8 shot runs at that speed. This lets you have plenty of time to set up the shots so your groups should be well centered and tight.

Drop the cadance down to .5 and you have to start pushing the transition shots just a bit.

Drop to .4 and you need to really keep in mind where your going next as you break each shot.

Keep knocking time off the cadance until you can no longer can transition to an A hit in time and then make a couple of runs just a little slower so you finish up with all A's.

You can work in reloads if you figure how many cadance beeps you're allowed to comlete the reload.

Have fun.

Dave

[postal]

Due to range restriction {long story} I started at ten yards with three 4” targets about four feet apart, I was doing them at .45 during practice so I started at 120bpm=.5 and then worked my way up to 180bpm=.33 but was a bit erratic in hitting the target, slowed it down to 150bpm my transitions timed out at .35-.4 accurately

I will when the range is empty go out further, and mix it up a bit, but it does work, and did help

working hard on that .2

[mcoliver]

Careful doing cadence drills. Make sure you're still seeing the sights before pulling the trigger and still call it with certainty. It's real easy to go into "zombie mode." Try spicing it up a bit by varying target height, order, distance or all three.

[CAB33]

I use a metronome in dry fire.

One thing I do is use it with the concept of : above par/on par/below par to push my transition times.

[rwmagnus]

Wouldn't it be better to let your vision and target dictate the speed of the shot? There are times where .30 is fast and times where it's slow. I'm not sold cadence shooting is the thing to practice. Everybody has a comfort zone on splits and transitions, in practice pushing those limits will improve your comfort zone. I'm not saying the metronome doesn't have merit, but I believe targets shouldto be shot should be shot as quickly and accurately as possible not just in a cadence.

[walsh]

In music, one of the best ways to speed up doing scales, and your playing ability, is to find the speed at which you can properly play scales cleanly and practice at that speed, and then slowly increase the speed of the metronome.

With headphones that have inputs (I just got some nice electronic Ryobi 25 dB at Home Depot for $70) has anyone ever considered having beginners shoot at the speed where they can maintain have good groups, and then do as with guitar scales and slowly increase the bpm? (beats per minute)

Thanks in advance,

Walsh

[Cy Soto]

Interesting concept!! I am just not sure that it can be easily transposed to shooting.

My concern is that you cannot accurately shoot faster than you can see your sights.

[twodownzero]

A metronome will just encourage cadence shooting, which is not what you want.

Speed will come naturally. Just shoot.

[walsh]

Interesting concept!! I am just not sure that it can be easily transposed to shooting.

My concern is that you cannot accurately shoot faster than you can see your sights.

Completely understood. "BUT", is it possible that there is a way, like this, to train the brain by forcing it ever so slightly to do what is necessary to speed up? The thing is that just as with a guitar, your objective is also the timing. Going faster than the beeps is just as wrong as going slower. I've spoken to a few of the top guitarist ( Al DiMeola and Tommy Emmanuel) and read articles interviewing some others and the metronome doesn't lie. They all practice with it still. You lose any top performance skills if you do not practice them regularly.

Walsh

Edited June 14, 2010 by walsh

[walsh]

A metronome will just encourage cadence shooting, which is not what you want.

Speed will come naturally. Just shoot.

I'm guessing there are two schools of thought on this as I borrowed a video from my instructor and some grand master said depending upon the distance you are shooting at, you want to be at the speed for that distance that you are able to perform at and smooth with each shot in a cadence. I had a former Marine sniper, and current LEO sniper, tell me I want a cadence while benchrest shooting when I have a certain time to fire X number off shots. I'm not the expert, just trying to learn.

Walsh

[Pat Miles]

I tried using a metronome a couple of years ago. Found that I was already triggering the gun faster than the metronome at it's highest setting. Never looked into the possibility of finding a faster metronome if they are available.

CYa,

Pat

[walsh]

I tried using a metronome a couple of years ago. Found that I was already triggering the gun faster than the metronome at it's highest setting. Never looked into the possibility of finding a faster metronome if they are available.

CYa,

Pat

Maybe you should have moved to a guitar

Thanks for letting us know your experience.

EDIT: My metronome goes to 250 bpm. That's the main beat. The point I lowered it to was 150 bpm and added triplets (450 beats) and it sounds like is a machine gun. But I can see how there is a point where a beginner is no longer able to time things properly, at which point he is no longer shooting like a beginner, which is my whole point. I'll try it to see what experience I have.

Edited June 14, 2010 by walsh

[G-ManBart]

A metronome will just encourage cadence shooting, which is not what you want.

Speed will come naturally. Just shoot.

I'm guessing there are two schools of thought on this as I borrowed a video from my instructor and some grand master said depending upon the distance you are shooting at, you want to be at the speed for that distance that you are able to perform at and smooth with each shot in a cadence. I had a former Marine sniper, and current LEO sniper, tell me I want a cadence while benchrest shooting when I have a certain time to fire X number off shots. I'm not the expert, just trying to learn.

Walsh

It's not about finger speed, it's about vision speed. Your finger should respond to the right visual input(s), not the tic of a metronome. Even if you found the speed at which a new shooter could normally shoot accurately, it's not going to be right 100% of the time. Each shot, each grip, each event is slightly different than the one before it, so you will reset on the target faster or slower in response to those things...so, done properly, the shot breaks only when you see what you need to see, for that shot. A tempo device can't capture that. R,

[rvb]

Burkett's timing drills are essentially metronome drills... I don't see anyone complaining that they inspire cadence shooting. Rather than shooting with a metronome, you're goal is to BE the metronome, but otherwise there's not much difference. The drill has you shooting 2s splits, 1s splits, 0.5s splits, 0.25s splits. I sometimes add 0.20 for fun. 0.25s splits = 240 bpm.

The timing drills, imo, help speed up the vision since you are going to make the gun go off at the required split, ready or not. So you have to learn to track the FS and to align the sights. I don't see what's being proposed here as more than a variation on Burkett's drill.

Be open to everything that's happening and let us know how it goes.....

-rvb

Edited June 14, 2010 by rvb

[Chills1994]

did you do a search?

I only ask that because I already know the answer....and I personally know the guy who started the thread.

I have no idea how long that guy ( aka "postal" hint...hint...screenname search) spent dry firing with his digital/electronic metronome....but I did see marked improvement in a short period. we used to shoot an IDPA style match at an indoor range every Tuesday night.

he shot a legitimate master classed IDPA classifier score ...and then went on to consistently win "high overall" at the local IDPA matches, repeatedly.

unfortunately, health issues forced him to give up shooting matches entirely.

thinking about him and how quickly he improved has me jones"ing for a metronome and the time to actually practice/dry fire. I reckon if the metronome doesn't help me...I could off load it quickly enough via craig's list.

[walsh]

It's not about finger speed, it's about vision speed.

As I said, I was just musing about whether the brain could be forced to speed up.

If anyone rides in the back seat of a NYC cab you might start out without a seat belt. Then inside of a minute, if you have a brain in your head, you'll get the seat belt on.

I read an audiology and balance paper a number of years ago. NYC cab drivers are like Top Gun pilots. How there are not 100 accidents a day is amazing. The study found that it was not that these people had any better propensity to be better drivers. It was that when put in the environment where speed meant money and they had to drive as fast as possible AND know when the precise move by other cars, and mostly cabs, were giving over to their maneuvers to pass, or refuting them and they had to yield, all developed because of the visual and aural environment they were operating in. They were forced to adapt or die, in a sense.

So I'm not thinking of just repetition to develop skills, but rather whether there are other ways to force the brain and the balance center, which is what we are talking about in any physical movement, to go beyond what is considered normal training would do. I'm not asking this as a way to avoid putting in the time. I'm just wondering if, as will likely be the case in 20 years, there are yet undiscovered ways to speed up ability.

Kinda like when Neo wakes up and says, "I know Kung Fu!"

[Chills1994]

cross reference...see also...

"Yerkes-Dodson arousal curve"

...

[nashvillebill]

It's an excellent tool/method for developing tactile speed. I used one when I was learning the draw and for reload practice, but it won't help you see faster.

[walsh]

cross reference...see also...

"Yerkes-Dodson arousal curve"

...

Look at that...without any knowledge whatsoever about that "Law" I related my poor guitar playing and trying to improve to training the brain to shoot.

And there is a search engine here? OOPS!

Edited June 14, 2010 by walsh

[walsh]

I only ask that because I already know the answer....and I personally know the guy who started the thread.

I'm not sure if you meant me because I'm 100% sure you confused me with someone else if you meant me. I wish I shot like the guy you spoke of.

Edited June 14, 2010 by walsh

[G-ManBart]

If you use a timer and set par times you can learn to go faster by gradually shortening the par time for things like draws and reloads. In a similar fashion, using the timer to record splits will work for multiple shots. Once you see that a set time (say .20s) split is reasonable, you'll know that .18s isn't much harder, and eventually .18s is reasonable and you know .15s isn't far away, etc, etc.