cohland Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Working on my Colt XSE (Series 80), it sure looks like the firing pin plunger spring is the source of about 1.5 pounds of the trigger pull weight. Can anyone else corroborate that finding? I'm trying to get the trigger pull down to about 3.5 pounds with the Series 80 safety parts in place, but it doesn't look feasible. The best I can get is right about 4.25 pounds at this point. A Cylinder & Slide Ultra Light Pull trigger kit is installed, parts have been polished. The break is really nice, but I'd like a lighter pull. Your comments and thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks, Chris Edited November 26, 2015 by cohland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ditch the 80 parts. If you really simply positively can't live without them, you can try clipping a coil off the firing pin plunger spring and polishing the bejeezus out of all the moving ignition parts. What you're asking can be done but it is not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superslowmo Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ditch the 80 parts. If you really simply positively can't live without them, you can try clipping a coil off the firing pin plunger spring and polishing the bejeezus out of all the moving ignition parts. What you're asking can be done but it is not easy. ^^Exactly^^ Click below- TJ'S 1911 SERIES '80 TO SERIES '70 CONVERSION SHIMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohland Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ditch the 80 parts. If you really simply positively can't live without them, you can try clipping a coil off the firing pin plunger spring and polishing the bejeezus out of all the moving ignition parts. What you're asking can be done but it is not easy. ^^Exactly^^ Click below- TJ'S 1911 SERIES '80 TO SERIES '70 CONVERSION SHIMS That's what I was thinking. I've got the parts, I just need to make a note that the safety is out of the gun for the day that I sell it. Thanks to both of you. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My Sig 1911 is an 80 type with all the safeties intact. I gave it a crisp 3 lb. trigger with very litte effort. BTW, everything is still original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chutist Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My Sig 1911 is an 80 type with all the safeties intact. I gave it a crisp 3 lb. trigger with very litte effort. BTW, everything is still original. The Sig firing pin safety is done differently that the Colt system. Apples and Oranges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Chutist, the XSE must work differently than my Gold Cup. My old Gold Cup National Match Series 80 had the same firing pin safety parts as my Sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohland Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Removed the 80 series parts this AM, installed the shim, and voila...the trigger pull is now 3.25 pounds. Thanks to all. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 You do realize that you just disabled the drop safety, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohland Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Yes. The grip safety and thumb safety are enough for USPSA, that's where the gun will be used. If I sell it to someone else I will install the Series 80 parts. Chris Edited November 26, 2015 by cohland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chutist Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Chutist, the XSE must work differently than my Gold Cup. My old Gold Cup National Match Series 80 had the same firing pin safety parts as my Sig. My Para has the Colt style set up but now has the spacer plate to remove it. My Sig has a plunger and bar that is held captive under the rear sights... It's been hard NOT to remove the rear sight and take that crap out but....it's a duty gun so it stays. Edited November 26, 2015 by Chutist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I had a Para with the series 80 installed with a 2.5lbs trigger pull. I did have a C&S ignition kit in it. It's possible to get a good pull with s80, it just takes good parts and some tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You do realize that you just disabled the drop safety, don't you? well it still has a grip safety and a manual safety... what is your opinion on guns that don't have a firing pin block/drop safety to begin with? like every 2011? like every series 70 type 1911? like many CZ 75 based models? and numerous other guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I would try not to drop it onto a hard surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Actually, for USPSA you can also disable the grip safety. Only required to have one operable safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The firing pin safety on 1911 style pistols is a waste of time, effort and money. Colt found that if you use a light firing pin and a slightly stronger firing pin spring, a 1911 will not fire when dropped, even from a significant height. Colt only created the Series 80 because certain states mandated that pistols sold there must include a positive mechanical drop safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohland Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Actually, for USPSA you can also disable the grip safety. Only required to have one operable safety. Thanks for that clarification. you're good! "8.1.2.5 When applicable, the grip safety may be disabled provided that the primary safety as described in 8.1.2.4 is operable.." Chris Edited December 1, 2015 by cohland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I would try not to drop it onto a hard surface. I try not to drop any of my guns onto hard surfaces whether they have drop safeties or not. I've had 2 tanfoglio's with firing pin blocks. One had to stay in to be compliant in that division (production) the other was open and came out immediately. I've seen a few guns hit the ground including tuned up 2011 open guns with sub 2lb triggers. None went off. The open 2011 I'm thinking of also had manual safety off and grip safety pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinoif3 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I have a few 80 guns and 3.5 is not a problem. One thing i do is clip a coil of the plunger tube spring. It's still safe but takes a little out of the equation. Google brownells 2.5lb trigger pull. There's a lot of good information there on tuning the sear spring after properly prepping all of your parts. It's achievable. Don't pull your parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I ditched the S80 parts from my gun - my 'smith said he couldn't do much to the pre-travel with the S80 in the gun. I am AMAZED at the difference after taking out the S80 and having him clean up the parts that were in the gun. You can reduce the pull with S80, but the travel will be longer and you will still have some of the 'grit' and click as the spring compresses and the plunger moves. My trigger was 4.25lb stock, and now is about 2.5lb. I don't know how much was attributed to the S80 spring, but the biggest difference is the wonderfully short pre-travel. The thought behind the firing pin block: if the gun is dropped onto a hard surface, the gun will stop falling but the pin can continue moving inside the gun. For the pin to move enough to fire a round, the momentum of the pin would have to overcome the force of the spring plus any friction and hit the cartridge. So the gun would have to fall and hit with the muzzle pointing relatively downward - if it landed on its side, the momentum of the pin would be sideways into the slide, not forward into the cartridge. The firing pin block is analogous to a seat belt in a car. In a collision (car moving forward = muzzle pointing down), momentum causes passengers to keep moving forward as the car slows down, like the firing pin moving forward as the gun stops falling. Seat belts and firing pin blocks are designed to be a rigid restraint to stop relative forward motion. In a side impact, the forces driving passengers or the pin forward are very small, if any, and the firing pin spring and friction will always act against forward motion. However, even without the block the pin still has the spring 'seat belt', and the mass of the spring is small. It would be a simple analysis to figure out how high the gun must fall from to let the pin hit the cartridge, but you would need to know the weight of the pin and spring force and I'm not nearly worried enough about it to figure those things out (I have to do the same calculation for hydraulic valve spools during abrupt changes of aircraft movement). I believe CZ Custom has done some actual testing on the subject, for whoever is interested. Edited December 5, 2015 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 One of the custom gunsmiths (I forget who) decided to test out the "safety" of 70 series pistols by dropping one muzzle first onto a concrete floor from shoulder height. He ended up with a scorched floor and a dinged up pistol. He reported that the pistol fired on average once every 6 or 7 drops. If you are worried about it, put in a Wolff extra power firing pin spring. Alternately, go to a Ti firing pin and put a heavier mainspring in. That's the route Springfield takes, although they put a waaay too heavy main spring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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