SDM Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 So if I spend $50-100 and a day of my life to shoot a level 1 match it's just practice? I say HTFU and learn the rulebook. If you're new and an equipment malfunction keeps you from coming back, so be it. Learn what it takes to keep your mess running, or get a bad score, or stay home. That said, I'm all for being welcoming to the new folks. Coaching off the clock, pointing out that we all were new once, and we all have issues is fine. But let them know that it's a competition and we run it fair. I'd argue that some will be turned off if the regulars aren't taking it serious. Might as well "practice" in the backyard. No, I said it was practice for me, you take away what you get from any match, or any training session. I shoot to stay proficient, and lower my blood pressure, not raise it, and hang out with my buds. What does HTFU mean? Harden up That's why I shoot classifiers with my G31 carry gun running full house ammo and drawing from an appendix holster from concealment, there is no rule against it.... Exactly. Make it what you want but stay within the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) "Harden up" Show me your war face!!! What!?! AHHHHHH! THAT'S A WAR FACE! Now show me your real war face! Bbut this is my first time at USPSA. BS sound off like you've got a pair! This isn't backyard practice with your eye dee pee ayyy tactical Timmy buddies! Make ready! Ohhkay. Arrrrrrre you ready? Uh huh...nods. Standby!... Beep. Pew! Pew pew pew! Pew! Pew!... Private Paper Puncher, you are born again hard! ??? Edited August 26, 2015 by Forrest Halley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Forrest, There is one guy I see at some of the 3 gun matches, when the R.O. says are you ready, he enthusiastically says, Hell yeah I am Ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The rule book is pretty clear about when a reshoot is mandatory and when it can be offered as an option. Pretty sure "Because the shooter is a new guy" isn't in there, but I haven't read it cover to cover in awhile. If you are running a USPSA match, then you are required to follow the rule book. If you are going to go off book, then advertise your match as an "Outlaw action pistol"" match and do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Forrest, There is one guy I see at some of the 3 gun matches, when the R.O. says are you ready, he enthusiastically says, Hell yeah I am Ready. I shoot cowboy action with a guy who yells yeehaw prior to taking the stage. It's awesome. Personally I just can't resist making light of the Harden up comment. Some of my best stage video has started with raucous laughter. Anyhow, we should probably leave well enough alone prior to injuring any toes or egos that may precede them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARRYJ Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The rule book is pretty clear about when a reshoot is mandatory and when it can be offered as an option. Pretty sure "Because the shooter is a new guy" isn't in there, but I haven't read it cover to cover in awhile. If you are running a USPSA match, then you are required to follow the rule book. If you are going to go off book, then advertise your match as an "Outlaw action pistol"" match and do what you want. Kinda strict for a local match and a new shooter. If it helps a new shooter stay in the sport, I'm all for giving him a little leeway in his first match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think there is a difference between 'new shooter' at his first match and 'new shooter' at his 4th or 5th match ..... For the former, I'm willing to bend quite a bit on non-safety rules but always with an explaination of what is expected and that he will not be given slack forever ... For the later, well time to get your s@$it together ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryFive0 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The worst part to me about reshoots at L1 matches is the bottle neck it creates! Sucks to be on a good pace with no real wait until you find a squad who always seems to have multiple reshoots per stage. Just sitting and waiting now for probably mostly BS reshoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryFive0 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The worst part to me about reshoots at L1 matches is the bottle neck it creates! Sucks to be on a good pace with no real wait until you find a squad who always seems to have multiple reshoots per stage. Just sitting and waiting now for probably mostly BS reshoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'm not really talking about legit reshoots per the rules. But more so restarts, related to gun problems! Or mental errors!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm not talking about drill sergeant ROs Mr. Halley. Nobody wants that. I'm talking about the new guy who won't come back because his gun malfunctioned and he didn't get a pity reshoot. Don't worry about making light of my comments. Both my ego and toes remain unaffected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The rule book is pretty clear about when a reshoot is mandatory and when it can be offered as an option. Pretty sure "Because the shooter is a new guy" isn't in there, but I haven't read it cover to cover in awhile. If you are running a USPSA match, then you are required to follow the rule book. If you are going to go off book, then advertise your match as an "Outlaw action pistol"" match and do what you want. Kinda strict for a local match and a new shooter. If it helps a new shooter stay in the sport, I'm all for giving him a little leeway in his first match. I'm not saying I don't help out a first timer. Ill give coaching tips before the stage starts, I'll make sure they understand what to do etc before i actually start them. But just because they are new or its their first match, I'm not going to say "Oh, you hit 2 No Shoots and forgot to shoot at those pieces of steel over there. You wanna run it again and try to do better?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 How many of you have witnessed this at matches. What do you think and should you say anything. Have never seen this other than as mentioned in the rule book. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Here is one I witnessed.. Table start unloaded gun magazine on the table. Buzzer went off grab gun slammed magazine into two hot packs in magwell. (27 degrees). RO stopped him for restart. What's your call? Edited August 27, 2015 by Onepocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Here is one I witnessed.. Table start unloaded gun magazine on the table. Buzzer went off grab gun slammed magazine into to hot packs in magwell. (27 degrees). RO stopped him for restart. What's your call? Why the restart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Here is one I witnessed.. Table start unloaded gun magazine on the table. Buzzer went off grab gun slammed magazine into to hot packs in magwell. (27 degrees). RO stopped him for restart. What's your call? Shooters problem, not the RO's problem, should not have stopped shooter. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 What is two hot packs in the magazine well? If he had crap in his gun, sorry about his luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm thinking "hot packs" means hand warmers since he referred to a 27 degree day (which screw that, im staying home if its that cold haha). Sounds like shooters problem to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm thinking "hot packs" means hand warmers since he referred to a 27 degree day (which screw that, im staying home if its that cold haha). Sounds like shooters problem to me. I am in Florida, we don't have many days like that, I didn't catch at 1st he meant temperature, I didn't know what the angle of the gun had to do with it as long as he didn't break 180. I agree he must have had hand warmers in his gun, sorry about his luck, he needed to clear it and finish the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 all of you are correct. He needed to clear his gun and finish the stage. However.... if it's a new shooter at his first match.... I don't really care if someone gives him a break, especially if they take the opportunity to explain to him how the rules work, and that normally, you don't get a mulligan for stuff like that. I don't care if people don't give him a break either tho. Honestly, I just don't care about this issue, at least as it involves first-match newbies that are being introduced to the sport at L1 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 He was not a new shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 He was not a new shooter. Well then. I guess I don't care enough to complain on the internet about it. If it happened at my club, I *would* care enough to take steps to correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Not complaining. Just curious if this is ok with Shooters on here. I did stop shooting certain matches because it was so prevalent. Didn't care enough to try and fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The rule book is pretty clear about when a reshoot is mandatory and when it can be offered as an option. Pretty sure "Because the shooter is a new guy" isn't in there, but I haven't read it cover to cover in awhile. If you are running a USPSA match, then you are required to follow the rule book. If you are going to go off book, then advertise your match as an "Outlaw action pistol"" match and do what you want.Kinda strict for a local match and a new shooter. If it helps a new shooter stay in the sport, I'm all for giving him a little leeway in his first match. I'm not saying I don't help out a first timer. Ill give coaching tips before the stage starts, I'll make sure they understand what to do etc before i actually start them. But just because they are new or its their first match, I'm not going to say "Oh, you hit 2 No Shoots and forgot to shoot at those pieces of steel over there. You wanna run it again and try to do better?" hopefully no one else is suggesting this either .... in golf a mulligan is typically hitting one shot over again, not the entire hole. I would never offer a new shooter a reshoot just because they had a terrible run, even if it was his first match. However, after engaging one target he has major gun issues and basically falls apart I might stop him & say "let's try that again" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Not complaining. Just curious if this is ok with Shooters on here. I did stop shooting certain matches because it was so prevalent. Didn't care enough to try and fix it. if this happens frequently at one particular match, what other rules are they being lax with as well? I'd be voting with my feet too. Not worth arguing about it at a L1 with a bunch of good ol boys .... I went to shoot a Steel Challenge match at a club I'd never been to before earlier this year. While waiting to start I noticed that Smoke & Hope looked a little odd .... got distracted talking with others & when we went to shoot the stage the first run of the first shooter was 1.80 secs with his rimfire gun ... now he's not a bad shooter but he's no sub 2 sec SC guy either. He even remarked after his run that "i've never shot sub 2 secs before ...". Now I really looked at the stage & it turned out the lateral distance between targets was several feet off. For Pemdulum, all targets were at 14 yds vice 18 yds & teh Stop Plate was 8 yds ... similar issues with 5 To Go. When I brought it up to one of the ROs they "assured" me teh stages were set correctly. The final straw was when I was shooting Accelerator & the RO claimed I had a miss because he didn't "hear a ding". the fact that there was clearly a bullet mark on the edge of teh target didn't mean anything to him. Also, since they wouldn't paint between shooters there was no way to tell no matter what. Instead of explaining to them that I was a SC match director and they had no clue what they were doing I just left after the match & have never been back Edited August 27, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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