StraightSh00ter Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I was in the gun shop yesterday (going to look at CZ in all honesty) and the girl behind the counter put a Witness Elite Limited in my hands. I was pretty blown away by it, but of course I couldn't shoot it. I really had a tough time putting it down and leaving the store. So my question is: what is EAA/Tanfo ownership like today, with respect to service, parts availability, reliability, maybe resale, whatever is relevant to owning one? Obviously there is a resemblance to CZ guns. I like that Tanfo/EAA (which is it btw?) has some options with different barrel lengths, and I guess just more stock options in general. It doesn't help that I'm a sucker for shiny stuff too But I'm concerned that the post-purchase support isn't there like it is for CZ, or that it would cost a lot more for parts/service due to less of a following or something. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 How much do you shoot? I've put 12K rounds through my Match (a much cheaper pistol than the Limited) with one part failure that kept failing (until I learned to deal with it). The rear sight kept coming loose. First I screwed it down. Then I loc-tited it. Then I cleaned it with brake cleaner, dried it and loc-tited-it again and finally it worked and has worked for 10K rounds. Hennings makes a fixed rear sight as well if you don't want to mess with it. I have replaced the recoil spring a few times, just to be careful to protect the pistol. I bought a replacement slide stop and extractor & spring, but haven't needed them. Tanfoglio is the manufacturer and EAA is the sole US importer. No idea what their contract says what each can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Service is non-existant, parts are very hard to come by, and there is a reason the top guys put up with all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrtyWood Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Your cooked!!! Once you put one in your hands your done, happened to me!!! A friend I shoot with dropped one in my hand and now I'm picking up bottles and cans to pay for my next Tanfo experience.....LOL!!!! Really now I have two.....some guys on here have a plethora of them!!!! I'm jealous..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Just to be clear I didn't buy it - since I did't know enough about the brand. I read some bad stuff about CS but they were old threads on other forums. I was hoping that had changed. Yeah I definitely feel seduced. I don't know about the parts/service thing though. I'm pretty new to all this so I don't know if its such a good idea yet. I was reading the manual after I started this thread. The warranty basically says you're on your own if you look inside when the lights are on. But maybe it will be something to work up to.... Everything about that gun though was perfect - size, shape, weight, grips, (and the bling - I'm such a sucker) even the thumb safety - which I thought looked ridiculous at first- was like a recliner for my thumb. I could tell it had competition springs and action and stuff. It was nice. If I was loaded (rich or drunk) I'd buy it. I like that the barrel is a little longer than the CZ SP01, and while it has the full dust cover it doesn't have the extra weight of the accessory rail. I think the SP01 is a little nose heavy. Obviously that's my opinion and I'm in the minority with that one, but the Tanfo was better setup to my hands and tastes. BTW Mrty, I'm jealous - Asheville is a nice place. Cincinnati sucks for me. I feel like a fish out of water out here. Edited July 30, 2015 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I've been a Tanfo owner since ~2012, when I got a Match in 10mm. That gun came with the best trigger OTB I've ever found on a pistol. Loved it. Everybody who shot it loved it. Put in stronger recoil spring per universal internet recommendations. Shot it quite a bit with full and near-full 10mm ammo. Had the sight disassemble itself on the range, parts go everywhere... EAA sent me a new rear sight for free. Shot some more. Broke a tip off the extractor, started getting failures. Put in a new one, pretty reliable. Shot some more full-power 10mm stuff. Got a crack in the frame right at the very bottom of the grip, right next to where the mag gets inserted - came right after a very "hot" round (I suspect setback in a brand of brass I don't use anymore). Sent it in to EAA. They sent me a new gun for free (didn't pay my return shipping, had to ship to FFL). Got the new gun just as I was getting into USPSA. Decided to shoot limited division using it. Downloaded 10mm ammo to .40 levels. Replaced front sight with a Henning fiber optic. Used Henning H500 base pads, then his 141 base pads with Grams springs and followers. Eventually put in a Henning guide rod. I am not exaggerating when I say it fed/ran every bit as reliably as the Glocks and XDs and CZs that I see, and better than almost any 1911/2011. Only reliability problem was, again, the rear sight. It took itself apart during a match one time (which you can't readily tell from behind the gun... the actual rear plate that you adjust and sight through has a notch... and the holder that remains when it flies off ALSO has a notch... it's too big, and it's not aligned, but at speed, I don't notice). Scoring for that stage went from a lot of A/C's to a lot of D/M's! Bit the bullet and replaced the rear sight with one from Henning. Took a bit of work (by the 'smith) to get it to fit, but it's good once you've got it installed. Just picked up a Limited, which will be my new gamer gun, as soon as the trigger job is done (strangely creep-infested trigger for a Tanfo...). Obviously, I'm a believer. Downsides to Tanfo/EAA in general: You're not going to walk into a retail gun store and find anything for your gun. Not magazines. Not holsters. Not sights. Not baseplates. Nothing. They're not impossible to work on, but they're certainly trickier than the modular plastic stuff. Supply of parts from EAA itself is spotty... their supply chain seems to be getting better, but historically there have been long dry spells. (You should go ahead and buy a small set of the wear items, such as springs and the extractor and the slide stop.) Upsides to Tanfo/EAA in general: A hell of a good gun. The price difference isn't quite a huge as it used to be, but it's still a really good value. Great design, super accurate. EAA customer support not as horrible - in my experience - as claimed. They don't blow kisses at you or focus on making sure the customer is "delighted" with their experience, but my experience was that if you approach them politely, they do take care of you. You won't get a hand-written note telling you how great you are... but you'll get a package with what you need. That was my experience, anyway. And the aftermarket support/upgrade market is really coming along. Henning's got a bunch of great stuff (IMO), and now the Grauffel/Xtreme stuff from Tanfo itself is in the marketplace. And some other gamer sources are around, too. It's never going to be like Glock, where every tacti-Tim with a CNC machine comes up with 4 different "improvements," but you've got 1-2 aftermarket/upgrade options for almost any part you'd want to change... you'll just have to buy them online. Downsides to the Match in particular: Kind of a 'tweener gun... it's pretty big and heavy for carry (though I have done so on occasion), but it lacks the magwell to make it really ideal for limited-class USPSA... and the SAO action, which makes for a great trigger, keeps it out of production. And some of the more gamer-oriented upgrades won't work because of the round-trigger-guard frame. But for a range gun or a woods-carry gun or a home defense gun - fabulous. And I've managed to win some small club matches with mine, despite being a C-class shooter. Overall, if you're looking for a guaranteed, no-hassle gun that will be plug-and-play with a million different off-the-shelf options available at your local big box sporting goods store... look elsewhere. Same thing if it's important to you to have 10 other guys at your club/range that you can share mags and tips with. Otherwise, I'm a believer. Hope that helps. Edited July 30, 2015 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Thanks, it does help. I'm not looking for a "gun that will be plug-and-play with a million different off-the-shelf options available at your local big box sporting goods store", just one that I can maintain within a reasonable amount of time for parts. "No hassle" is sort of important though - starting out with a gun that isn't super reliable sounds like a bad idea. There are plenty of other things to be thinking about. So I guess this still makes me lean toward CZ given my situation. But who knows when that will change. My other competition hobby is similar - with anything competition grade, you don't find stuff in the 'normal' outlets anymore and everything cost exponentially more. Supply and demand I guess. I wish there were more around to look at. I'll try to go to more shooting events. Although, if I committed to Limited, I wouldn't really need much else besides that Elite Limited. Maybe a different mag release, it was hard to reach with the fat walnut grips. Where are sources for parts online? Edited July 30, 2015 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Henning's stuff: http://henningshop.com/ Eric Grauffel's stuff: http://www.ericgrauffelonlineshop.com/en/46-tanfoglio-xtreme-parts Henning's and Eric's stuff from a 3rd party (Stoeger): http://www.benstoegerproshop.com/category-s/1843.htm Canyon Creek magwells: http://shop.canyoncreekcustom.com/category.sc?categoryId=3 EAA's online shop: http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/index.php/parts/tanfoglio/witness.html Most/all of those offer grips that are a bit thinner than the wood ones you felt. To be clear, my current Tanfo (the 2nd Match) was reliable OOTB. And based on limited test-firing, my new Limited seems to be, too. But sometimes you have to tweak things... just as most high-performance cars run a higher chance of requiring tweaking than a Honda Accord. I think the issue is that, if/when a problem arises, you can't just throw the gun at your local "gunsmith" who took one armorer's course from Glock. You have to either figure the gun out yourself or find an actual gunsmith who has experience or who is willing to figure stuff out. And some replacement parts will require fitting (though some won't... it just varies). That's either too much fuss or just part of the game to you. In my view, it doesn't matter that much. Fool with it a bit to get it the way you want, then run it. As I said above, I sincerely think my current Match has been every bit as reliable as the G34's and XDm's and CZ's I see at matches. (I think it helps that I'm a pretty careful handloader... I'm not putting junk, out-of-spec ammo in the gun.) Only recurring reliability issue has been the rear sight, which I "solved" by going fixed. The adjustable sight on the Limited is entirely different, and purportedly much more robust. Time will tell on that.... Oh, and as far as maintenance, they're not hard. Easy to field strip (like a CZ). Replacing a firing pin is easy. Replacing a recoil spring is beyond easy. Replacing an extractor or extractor spring is not hard, but it's not easy, either.... slightly fiddly and requires driving a roll-pin. If the idea of punching a roll-pin makes you cringe, then your'e not going to do much on a Tanfo... but I think the same is true of the metal-framed CZs. Changing the trigger or taking the trigger out of the gun is manageable (I've done it, and I'm a white-collar dude with no great mechanical aptitude), but getting it all back together is tricky. Henning has a couple of great (low-res, because they're old) videos on disassembly and re-assembly. I used them, and the gunsmith I use also used them the first time he stripped one down to the frame. Edited July 30, 2015 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thanks Dave. I guess it also helps that this would be a second gun, so if something did happen I'd have a backup. I'm shooting a 9mm 1911 right now in SS (just started, first match last weekend, lots of fun ) I still need to do some research though - the Elite Limited seemed like it had some pretty light springs and stuff. My intent is to run factory ammo for a little while, maybe a couple of years, until I have my own club membership. So I need something that will eat anything I feed it. I don't shoot enough yet to warrant a reloading setup. Hopefully I will change that soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Oh, man, just get a dang press. I know all the high-volume serious shooters run their Dillons, but I've gotten several years out of my Lee Classic Turret. I ordered it here, and it works like a charm: https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41 I can't load hundreds and hundreds of rounds at one sitting, but I can crank out 50 or 100 pretty easily. And I can do 20-30 in just a few minutes. Loading straight-walled pistol cases is just too easy, if you are someone who can force yourself to pay attention and be careful. And if you're concerned about the factory spring weight: http://henningshop.com/products/tanfoglio-recoil-spring-by-wolff-gunsprings 8 different spring weights, all just drop in. That's literally the easiest change/mod possible. Edited July 30, 2015 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Nick Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Straightsh00ter, I shoot steel in the Cincinnati area. There is a few of us who shoot everything from Witness Steels to Gold Teams. I started with a Witness Steel and liked it so well that I purchased a Limited Pro. Last fall I bought a Gold Team and really enjoy shooting unlimited. I just purchased a .22 conversion and am in the process of mounting it on top of my Limited Pro frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Taught myself from videos and forums - went from tuning up a already tuned gun to buying NIB and starting from scratch. It's very doable but you will put in some hours and dollars. I have found it a worthwhile and fulfilling experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sousa Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) I fired a Stock II last year and from that moment on, I had to have a Tanfo. I ended up getting a Limited Elite and haven't looked back since. With the wealth of knowledge on this forum and from local shooters who helped me out, I've got it modded perfectly and reliably. Don't be afraid to get one and mess with it yourself. Edited August 1, 2015 by sousa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 The Limited Elite felt like it had a lighter hammer spring, and maybe a lighter recoil spring (stock). I know the manual says not to feed it reloads, but would it really have no problem with a variety of factory ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It should shoot factory just fine. The tanfos are pretty easy to maintain and very reliable. I'd suggest if you like limited then get the tanfo limited. The cz tac sport is also a great limited gun (with an amazing ootb trigger). With the limited I'd suggest you'd probably want to do some trigger work but it's not essential. Like others here I enjoy modding my comp guns so for me a limited tanfo would look like this: Limited in 40 cal. K40 mags with henning bases (assuming they fit gauge which I think they do for uspsa) DAA thumb rest Henning 10.75 recoil spring Henning firing pin Extreme light hammer spring and firing pin spring Henning/egw sear and hammer Henning flat trigger and trigger pin Henning magwell Whatever grips you like and whatever sights you like Henning guiderod Consider getting the slide cut as per the limited customs that the rest of the world gets That will give a great feeling, reliable, accurate gun with a 2lb trigger. Not as short as a 2011 trigger but still pretty nice to run. Do you 'need' to do any of that stuff? Not really. You could grab one out of the box and perhaps just change the recoil spring to one suitable for your loads. The trigger will be a little long and a little heavy for a SAO comp gun but certainly not unmanageable. They do make a really nice pistol and a great option for something different to all the 2011s and polymer guns about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Nick Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Straightsh00ter, At last nights Friday Night Steel there were at least 2 people shooting Witness Limited's and I shot mt .40 Gold Team. There's lots of friendly shooters there and glad to answer any questions you have (especially Tanfo owners). I placed 2nd in unlimited being beat out by my friend and his STI .38SC by only 0.81s so tanfoglios are competitive. I've probably shot close to 20,000 rounds thru my 3 Witness's without anything breaking (knock on wood) so I think their tough and reliable. Good luck on your decision and I hope you had fun at the shoot. PS. I got there late but if you were still there, I was the old, fat guy in the red shirt with gray hair enjoying shooting. Edited August 1, 2015 by Big Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Thanks guys. "They do make a really nice pistol and a great option for something different to all the 2011s and polymer guns about." That's my thought. I got to check out (but not shoot since it was late) an STI last night. Obviously it was beautiful but I have a tough time with the poly frame. And I have a 1911, so.... The trigger is one of the things I really like about CZ - there are options to get a really short SA trigger with one or two aftermarket parts. I will look into options for the Tanfoglio trigger and they certainly have their share of 'pluses'. I will absolutely love modding my guns, I just don't have the time this year. So I'm looking for a good base gun that feels good, is relatively accurate, and has a pretty decent trigger out of the box. I'm going to try not to rush into this one. I didn't realize people would be so cool about trying their guns. The guy who runs the Steel shoot last night offered to let me try his STI any time, and I imagine he's got a few other goodies that I don't know about yet. At the same time I want to have some stuff done to my 1911 but I really don't want to be w/o a gun to shoot. All these luxury problems, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Nick, I must have just missed you?! I got there about 6:30, maybe started shooting a little after 7 and left at 9:30. It was SO MUCH FUN!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Nick Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Don't be lured over to the dark side (STI). If I knew you were there, and I knew who you were, I would have let you shoot my Gold Team. It's a little loud but a blast to shoot. You might look into next Saturdays shoot at Miami Rifle and Pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrtyWood Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 StraightshOOter, Asheville is horrible, bad winters, bugs, fleas, ticks, you name it it's here!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you get the hint we are trying to get people not to move here???? All the locals say that to visitors, trying to keep it small town, but it's not going to happen, they're fighting change!! YEP it's a pretty place!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Is the frame of the Elite Limited and the Elite Limited Pro the same size (width/thickness)? Or is the Limited Elite wider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Nick Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Limited Pro has a shorter frame because it has a shorter dust cover, and the frame is not drilled and tapped for a scope mount, but everything is the same as far as the frame goes. Edited August 2, 2015 by Big Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Width is the same for limited, limited pro, stock2, stock3, gold team/ericbgokd custom and probably one of two I missed. Oh yeah gold match. Basically you have your short dustccover lim pro then the rest are split between the 4.5incj and 4.75 inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livn68 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Great thread for the aspiring Tanfo owner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAYZER Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Got an Elite Limited payed about 800 USD (599 in euros), dropped about 250 euros in Xtreme parts (some are spares) and havent looked back yet! It runs and runs (2.5K rounds now) im updating the front sight now (thin, and green fiber) and just tuning the trigger a bit. Sure the parts are spare, but we in EU can't go to the corner store anyway, I order straight in Italy of from Eric in France and have the parts the same week. I bet you can't just go in the store for CZ custom parts also, also sometimes fitting is mandatory anyway. Don't be scared by the unicorn stories. They are value, damn sexy and shoot straight! I got all the help and more from these guys here on BE and will do my fair bit myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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