Who would you go to for XD accuracy work?

[RJH]

Garmil, I think you quoted the wrong guy.

[Loves2Shoot]

Mike, you must have not read the part when I said the rest, ammo, etc. would be completely understandable. I think the OP wanted to know PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: "WHAT THE PISTOL WOULD BE CAPABLE OF," not how it would necessarily group in his hands. A new Baer cost about 1800, An XDM comp with a new barrel, trigger, etc. fitted by a smith, probably wouldn't be far off of that. However you would at least have some idea of how the Baer would shoot. I think the OPs main concern was that he might spend a considerable amount of money, with no real recourse, if there was a problem.

Also Mike, some of those guns are only a few hundred dollars

Loves2shoot, I personally think that (hitting the paster) would be an acceptable promise for most, it would for me. Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread.

He was told in extensive detail why we don't give a group guarantee or percentage of accuracy increase. Some of these guns are very accurate from the factory.

[Garmil]

Garmil, I think you quoted the wrong guy.

Oops you're right I did, fixed.

[Loves2Shoot]

Mike, you must have not read the part when I said the rest, ammo, etc. would be completely understandable. I think the OP wanted to know PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: "WHAT THE PISTOL WOULD BE CAPABLE OF," not how it would necessarily group in his hands. A new Baer cost about 1800, An XDM comp with a new barrel, trigger, etc. fitted by a smith, probably wouldn't be far off of that. However you would at least have some idea of how the Baer would shoot. I think the OPs main concern was that he might spend a considerable amount of money, with no real recourse, if there was a problem.

Also Mike, some of those guns are only a few hundred dollars

Loves2shoot, I personally think that (hitting the paster) would be an acceptable promise for most, it would for me. Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread.

I don't doubt that you do good work and deliver accurate guns.

But I can also understand the frustration that some get with the lack of hard numbers.

A guarantee of it will shoot right or it will get a new barrel is pretty vague. Obviously the shooter deciding if it shoots right has some idea of accuracy in relation to inches to make that decision.

Garmil, how would you give an improvement guarantee if you don't what mechanical accuracy the gun has to start with? We generally do not advise people to buy barrels, our customers come to us because they know what we do and want us to do it for them. We do our best to give our customers the most accurate product possible and with the variances in a Production pistol I do not want to undersell the accuracy with a group that is overly large. I've spent more time in this thread dealing with one non-customer than all the customers we've had in the last 10 years who trust us to do what we do.

[Garmil]

I never mentioned an improvement guarantee I was talking about the final product being test fired which I believe is also the primary concern of the op not so much improvement but end result, which is much easier for you to quantify.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Garmil

[Loves2Shoot]

The original OP is adamant about a group guarantee, which no one who does these guns offers. A percentage increase in accuracy is the question 90%+ of the people ask.

[Garmil]

Yes that fact has been beat to death.

I'm just curious if you can put "shooting right" in to numbers. If not then that's all we get and its not a bad thing, just different.

[Loves2Shoot]

Yes that fact has been beat to death.

I'm just curious if you can put "shooting right" in to numbers. If not then that's all we get and its not a bad thing, just different.

I did, a paster is a 1" square.

[IHAVEGAS]

Mike, you must have not read the part when I said the rest, ammo, etc. would be completely understandable. I think the OP wanted to know PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: "WHAT THE PISTOL WOULD BE CAPABLE OF," not how it would necessarily group in his hands. A new Baer cost about 1800, An XDM comp with a new barrel, trigger, etc. fitted by a smith, probably wouldn't be far off of that. However you would at least have some idea of how the Baer would shoot. I think the OPs main concern was that he might spend a considerable amount of money, with no real recourse, if there was a problem.

Also Mike, some of those guns are only a few hundred dollars

Loves2shoot, I personally think that (hitting the paster) would be an acceptable promise for most, it would for me. Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread.

He was told in extensive detail why we don't give a group guarantee or percentage of accuracy increase. Some of these guns are very accurate from the factory.

Uh - no.

If you re-read your post from earlier in this thread you will read about lack of communication and your explanation that this was due to whoever normally communicates being on vacation (Hawaii I think,).

If it is important I could dig the email communication out of my back up hard drive, kind of a nuisance but if you would like to see the data I can sympathize with that perspective .

I think we are just debating at this point rather than sharing any useful info so maybe it is time to let the thread die ? Not my call, but just a thought.

[Doellemite]

I would first go to Dunham's, then to the range. Repeat as necessary. J/k

[Loves2Shoot]

If you don't think I explained in extensive detail at this point, then I give up. The first contact did not satisfy your inquiry or give you the detail requested as it was the first time he was asked the question, so I have spent my time trying to do so. He now knows how to answer any such inquires.

[IHAVEGAS]

If you don't think I explained in extensive detail at this point, then I give up. The first contact did not satisfy your inquiry or give you the detail requested as it was the first time he was asked the question, so I have spent my time trying to do so. He now knows how to answer any such inquires.

"Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread. "

[mikeinctown]

Wait, you are the OP and he explained back on page one not only why they do not offer any guarantees as to accuracy, but also who gave you the information and that he was curently unavailable. He explained WHY an accuracy guarantee was not really possible with the type of pistol this was. He explained the percentages of what they have found to be results based on most likely thousands of guns being worked on and that if something is way off that they will do their best to fix the issues.

One thing this thread has shown me, and that is who to go to for work on their XD. (SP)

[IHAVEGAS]

Wait, you are the OP and he explained back on page one not only why they do not offer any guarantees as to accuracy, but also who gave you the information and that he was curently unavailable. He explained WHY an accuracy guarantee was not really possible with the type of pistol this was. He explained the percentages of what they have found to be results based on most likely thousands of guns being worked on and that if something is way off that they will do their best to fix the issues.

One thing this thread has shown me, and that is who to go to for work on their XD. (SP)

Yes, that is obvious.

This was the question.

"Out of curiosity, (not being a smarta** here) did you tell the OP that early on, when you talked on the phone, or only later in this thread. "

I think you will also note that he is guaranteeing that when the work is completed the gun will hit a 1" paster square. If you feel that this accuracy guarantee is not possible, I do not have a dog in the fight anymore and you may pursue it or not as you wish.

[Kmarsh1966]

Reading this has been interesting. Good points- if you don't have a baseline you can't guarantee. I really love Mr. Springer personally responding to the positions and commend him on his professionalism. BarSto has been an industry standard for 30+ years. I have an XDM and am interested in knowing what I can do to improve it. First got it earlier this year and shot several groups at 25 yd what were 2-3" range. That was using factory mags. Since I have added Dawson extensions and feel like the mags are pushing on the BBL affecting the accuracy when I shoot from a rest. I don't really understand how the barrel lock up works, so this may not be relevant.

I jumped back into this sport thinking wow, I can get a factory gun to do everything I want....... A little time in the game and I see that that was a false assumption. Some of the drop in modifications do help, though I think you really need a competent COMPETITION GUNSMITH. Not the BS Navy Seal Wanna Be parts changers down at bobs Local gun shop.

If you want a guarantee of accuracy, order an INFINITY and drop $4-6 Grand. They will send you a Ransom Rest test group shooting under 1" at 50 yards.

Mr Springer, you may have earned a customer simply by the quality of your replies

[IHAVEGAS]

Good points- if you don't have a baseline you can't guarantee.

If you want a guarantee of accuracy, order an INFINITY and drop $4-6 Grand.

So, if I gots this straight, you're a thinkin that builders like SV & CZ & LB & etc have a baseline on the raw parts ?

Peace.

[wheelie]

While its not stated explicitly in this thread, there is an implication that I can supply. That implication is that anyone who does accuracy work on pistols can supply an accuracy guarantee, but you'll have to pay for it. If I was the gunsmith, I'd want about $200.00 to 300.00 more to thoroughly machine rest test the gun.

So, just take the going price that is charged for the work without an accuracy guarantee and add a couple, three hundred bucks. Does that amount of money fit your idea of an appropriate charge for improving your pistol?

Would you pay for it? Or would you complain that it costs too much?

[Loves2Shoot]

You can't accurately machine test these polymer guns, they just don't lend themselves to it (as the thread explains in detail) that is why we have to rely on our skill at fitting parts and our ability to shoot groups. Our customers by in large understand this is what we do day in and day out and fit hundred of barrels every year. We have had only a handful that want a guarantee, and none that want to pay for the added cost of before and after testing, as that is the only way to know the exact percentage of improvement.