Building a 1911

[Watermelonassassin]

How hard is it to hand fit a 1911? I have seen some of the awesome sales at PSA for 1911 parts and was curious what all needs to go into it.

[mike cyrwus]

Take it from me, it's easy. You do have a kiln don't you?

[zzt]

If you have the necessary measuring tools and tools to cut metal, it is easy to do. It is also easy to overdo, so have patience and take your time.

The first rule of thumb is measure and record. Then do it again. Once you are sure where you have to remove metal, begin. I use honing stones to clean the groves, and a surface plate with sandpaper down to 6000 grit it cut and finish the rails, deck of the receiver and bottom of the slide. Use a file if you have to take more than .002" - .003" off a surface. Leave a thou or two to cut with the sandpaper. If you keep everything parallel, you can get a perfect fit without lapping.

[BlueSpaderInfantryman]

I was also looking into those PSA deals about a week ago, and would also like to know. I have built AR15's and have done gunsmithing on other firearms, but have never built a 1911. Any good info resource that anyone would recommend for the build?

[BlueSpaderInfantryman]

If you have the necessary measuring tools and tools to cut metal, it is easy to do. It is also easy to overdo, so have patience and take your time.

The first rule of thumb is measure and record. Then do it again. Once you are sure where you have to remove metal, begin. I use honing stones to clean the groves, and a surface plate with sandpaper down to 6000 grit it cut and finish the rails, deck of the receiver and bottom of the slide. Use a file if you have to take more than .002" - .003" off a surface. Leave a thou or two to cut with the sandpaper. If you keep everything parallel, you can get a perfect fit without lapping.

Thanks for the info. I will definitely keep that in mind.

[Watermelonassassin]

Take it from me, it's easy. You do have a kiln don't you?

I spit coffee everywhere when I read this. That was a good laugh. Sadly no fresh out of kilns. And it seems like it wouldn't be too hard but would it be worth it over something like a springfield range officer? Cause I added up the cost of the parts I would want and I could just buy a Springfield. Also some people say you need all these specific 1911 building tools, others say you don't but aren't specific as to what you DO need if you aren't going to get the specific tools. So if I wanted to build one without buying the "for 1911 building only" tools, what would I need?

[MrWallace]

Having (hopefully) just finished fitting my first 2011, there are some aspects that are easy and some that aren't. It depends on how in-depth you're wanting to get.

For instance, I had the 2011 frame but no slide, so I bought a CK arms slide because it was the style that I wanted. It took me a while to get the slide lapped just right, and even then I was having issues with the slide going all the way back (I still believe it is because the slide tapers a lot more than it should at the front). A slide lapper would've made this job much easier!

The barrel I used was a .40 bull barrel that needed the hood cut, and the link/lug area to be worked extensively. For that I got a friend of a friend to do the majority of it on his mill. Then I had to order a lug cutter from brownells to trim it to the right depth. Too much and you'll have to scrap the barrel. But, I'm told there are much easier avenues to go about a good barrel than the way I did mine.

As for fitting the internals that was just stone and sand paper and file work.

To answer your question, do you need the "1911 only" tools? No, but the right tool for the right job makes your life incredibly easier. If you don't want to invest in those tools, off the top of my head I'd suggest:

•A good set of small files

•A wide array of stones in varying sizes/shapes/grit

•Sand paper ranging from 1500-4000 grit

•A good vice

•Downloading or buying a copy of The Colt .45 - A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen (available as a free DL if you google it)

•Coffee

•Something disposable for when you get frustrated

Good luck!

Edited July 3, 2015 by MrWallace

[Watermelonassassin]

Having (hopefully) just finished fitting my first 2011, there are some aspects that are easy and some that aren't. It depends on how in-depth you're wanting to get.

For instance, I had the 2011 frame but no slide, so I bought a CK arms slide because it was the style that I wanted. It took me a while to get the slide lapped just right, and even then I was having issues with the slide going all the way back (I still believe it is because the slide tapers a lot more than it should at the front). A slide lapper would've made this job much easier!

The barrel I used was a .40 bull barrel that needed the hood cut, and the link/lug area to be worked extensively. For that I got a friend of a friend to do the majority of it on his mill. Then I had to order a lug cutter from brownells to trim it to the right depth. Too much and you'll have to scrap the barrel. But, I'm told there are much easier avenues to go about a good barrel than the way I did mine.

As for fitting the internals that was just stone and sand paper and file work.

To answer your question, do you need the "1911 only" tools? No, but the right tool for the right job makes your life incredibly easier. If you don't want to invest in those tools, off the top of my head I'd suggest:

•A good set of small files

•A wide array of stones in varying sizes/shapes/grit

•Sand paper ranging from 1500-4000 grit

•A good vice

•Downloading or buying a copy of The Colt .45 - A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen (available as a free DL if you google it)

•Coffee

•Something disposable for when you get frustrated

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I just ordered a SS frame and slide from PSA. I am going to slowly build it up with mostly WC parts. I will get a decent budget 1911 to use in the meantime. Wish WC parts weren't so damn expensive, but they make really nice stuff. Who makes the best bang for the buck barrels in .45 acp?

[mike cyrwus]

Kart

[MrWallace]

Kart, Scheumann, Nowlin

[Watermelonassassin]

Thanks for all the help. I will likely come back to this thread soon. I am sure I will have loads more questions once the parts arrive.

[drewbeck]

Patience is the key to not over doing it the first time.

This was my first 1911/2011, my next will take about one third the time, and be better but it's a serviceable first attempt and runs which is all that matters

When in doubt stop for a while and do some googling

[Watermelonassassin]

This may be a silly question but is there a list of measurements somewhere? like how thick the slide rail has to be. How open the channel on the frame has to be, etc, etc.

[drewbeck]

Not a silly question, and I also tried to find that answer but in all reality there is no "have to be" when building a custom gun. There is an order to fit the parts together than is likely to produce a quality product but at the end of the day there is not a size. There are published mil specs but they are ultimately just guidelines when you are trying to build a quality gun and unless you are just looking to build a rattle can mil spec 1911 it becomes far more of an art than a science until you come full circle and are into the bullseye guns and have the tooling to do so.

Ultimately the parts you have sitting in front of you for the project will tell you the dimensions to cut them but it's a lot more organic than you would think.

The best way I can explain this is to put it the question in a different context and rephrase it into something more like this...

"I want to make a really nice workbench that fits and utilizes all the nooks and crannies of my basement and mY floor slab isn't perfectly level. I am ready to go and have all the 2x4's and plywood but I'm really looking for someone to tell me exactly how long and what shape to cut them all?

There is no answer because your project and basement is unique to you. All we can say is, workbenches are usually 32"-38" high with a 20"-30" deep top. If you want drawers make them between 12-20" wide, space shelves on 10-14" centers, etc. and identify the best order to do things like, don't cut your countertop until you build the bench so you don't cut it too narror or short. Don't decide on your bench height without measuring the current height of your reloading press. Don't cut the legs to length until you know the thickness of the countertop your using, Etc, etc.

Basically figure out the order of fitting operation, understand what you have to work with, develop a plan of attack, and then just slowly wing it.

It's a fun project, good luck

[MrWallace]

Watermelon- if you look through these two manuals you should be able to find the measurements that you're looking for. Also, you could find the blueprints for the 1911 and use the measurements from those if you know what you're looking at.

By the way, I would suggest reading through these manuals, or at least familiarize yourself with them. They will definitely be one of the best resources you can go to for reference points and proper fitting of things. But as Drewbeck said, ultimately the parts you've got in front of you will determine the dimensions you'll need. When I fit mine, I worked the rails on the frame until I could get the slide started, and then worked the slide a little bit, then the rails then the slide. You can always go back and work the rails to tighten them up, but first thing you need to do is get all of the measurements for the rails on the frame, the slide rail cuts, etc... But honestly, Volume 2 below should walk you through pretty much everything.

Volume 1:

http://www.restigouchegunclub.com/Firearm%20user%20manuals/The_Colt_.45_Automatic_-_A_Shop_Manual_Vol.1_by_Kuhnhausen.pdf

Volume 2:

http://www.klstottlemyer.com/klstottlemyer.com/Prints_drawing_etc_files/The_Colt_.45_Automatic_-_A_Shop_Manual_Vol.2_by_Kuhnhausen.pdf

PDF of an updated (and rather well done) version of the blueprints:

http://riobenson.com/M1911A1%20REDUX%202nd%20ED%20-%20%20Complete.PDF

Keep the questions coming! The only dumb/bad questions are the ones you don't ask!

Edited July 4, 2015 by MrWallace

[Watermelonassassin]

Thanks for the links! I know with a custom gun you can go a little crazy with the measurements. I have just always been told that with 1911s the parts have to be just right in order for reliable function. So I would like it to be as close to "spec" as I can make it. So I don't have to worry about "spec" parts not fitting and functioning properly. Does anyone make parts better than or equal to WC but that won't cost my first born son?

[MrWallace]

Haha well I don't know about your first born son, maybe just the second one but generally I go with that adage "Buy nice or buy twice" when it comes to getting parts. The main manufacturers that make great parts are:

• EGW
• Extreme Engineering
• Ed Brown
• Dawson
• Wilson Combat (as you already know)

As far as preference on what parts to use, that's entirely up to you. I have a motley collection of parts in my 2011 ranging from STI stock parts to EGW, WC, and Dawson. When it comes to ordering the parts, just do a bit of searching around about what you're looking at, make sure it'll work with what you've got (you can always contact the manufacturer to be sure!), and hit go! You're on the right track by asking questions, so keep em coming!

Good luck!

[drewbeck]

If you want to get your feet wet without paying for premium parts you can get a kit from sarco for 3-500 bucks and learn on it. The quality won't be nearly as good and you probably won't have the tightest fit but it would be a great learning step without such a financial commitment.

You will likely spend more time learning to clean up and fix cast parts but the time spent learning to use files will be well worth it.

I bought a mini mill to do mine but at the end of the day I felt more comfortable doing the work with files and stones. I used the mill for the sights, serrations but did everything else by hand. Heck I even cut the tri top by hand and it turned out great (flat topped in mill but didn't have the jig to tri top)

For files I bought a bunch of used sets or lots from ebay at around a buck each, usually groups of 15-20, you end up with maybe 50% great files and the others are junk but can be ground into other tools and it will get you started on a great set without paying 15-20 each. Buy the specific ones like a lug file from brownells and you be on your way.

The other tool that is worth it's weight in gold to me is a good positioning vise and soft jaws. You can do everything better if you have the piece held solidly. For sanding sticks I just get PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) sand paper and bought an assortment of small dowels and square sticks from hd and cut them to whatever length I wanted. Works well and is cheap.

It's a very fun hobby

[Watermelonassassin]

If you want to get your feet wet without paying for premium parts you can get a kit from sarco for 3-500 bucks and learn on it. The quality won't be nearly as good and you probably won't have the tightest fit but it would be a great learning step without such a financial commitment.

You will likely spend more time learning to clean up and fix cast parts but the time spent learning to use files will be well worth it.

I bought a mini mill to do mine but at the end of the day I felt more comfortable doing the work with files and stones. I used the mill for the sights, serrations but did everything else by hand. Heck I even cut the tri top by hand and it turned out great (flat topped in mill but didn't have the jig to tri top)

For files I bought a bunch of used sets or lots from ebay at around a buck each, usually groups of 15-20, you end up with maybe 50% great files and the others are junk but can be ground into other tools and it will get you started on a great set without paying 15-20 each. Buy the specific ones like a lug file from brownells and you be on your way.

The other tool that is worth it's weight in gold to me is a good positioning vise and soft jaws. You can do everything better if you have the piece held solidly. For sanding sticks I just get PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) sand paper and bought an assortment of small dowels and square sticks from hd and cut them to whatever length I wanted. Works well and is cheap.

It's a very fun hobby

Awesome. This kinda stuff is the stuff I need to know. I have enough files to fill a shoe box and I wear size 13s. I don't know if they are "good" or not. And the sand paper trick is a great idea, I will have to do that. I already have a nice table vice with soft jaws ready to go. MrWallace, thanks for the brand names. I am going to see what the other brands cost and see if I like their design and what not. Things haven't even gotten here yet and this is pretty fun. Trying to decide exactly how I want every little thing.

[Tochnost]

I bought the Jerry Kuhnhausen book when I built my first 1911. Lots of great information on fitting and diagrams. The brownells articles are hard to beat too. I think they have a series on building an open gun from start to finish that is a good resource.

It may cost you the same or a bit more than buying a stock gun but building a pistol from scratch is really rewarding. I love the creative aspect and choosing high quality parts that I want from the start.

[Watermelonassassin]

I bought the Jerry Kuhnhausen book when I built my first 1911. Lots of great information on fitting and diagrams. The brownells articles are hard to beat too. I think they have a series on building an open gun from start to finish that is a good resource.

It may cost you the same or a bit more than buying a stock gun but building a pistol from scratch is really rewarding. I love the creative aspect and choosing high quality parts that I want from the start.

That was my thoughts. If it turns out well I was going to have it engraved and pass it down to my kids.

[Tochnost]

That gives you an excuse to build one for each kid right?

Then wether you have them now or they come later, you always have the grandkids to think about too. Can't leave them out.

[Watermelonassassin]

That gives you an excuse to build one for each kid right?

Then wether you have them now or they come later, you always have the grandkids to think about too. Can't leave them out.

HAHAHAHA lets stick to worrying about one kid for now. Signing me up for checks I can't cash lol.

[Tochnost]

That gives you an excuse to build one for each kid right?

Then wether you have them now or they come later, you always have the grandkids to think about too. Can't leave them out.

HAHAHAHA lets stick to worrying about one kid for now. Signing me up for checks I can't cash lol.

I have a couple ar receivers set aside for my kids. Why not have some 2011 or 1911 frames too.

[Watermelonassassin]

That gives you an excuse to build one for each kid right?

Then wether you have them now or they come later, you always have the grandkids to think about too. Can't leave them out.

HAHAHAHA lets stick to worrying about one kid for now. Signing me up for checks I can't cash lol.

I have a couple ar receivers set aside for my kids. Why not have some 2011 or 1911 frames too.

I was worried about the 2011 since I had never held one and it seemed bulky. I got to hold an STI marauder 2011 today and I am going to either get or build one so a 2011 frame is next on the never ending list of supplies to get.