Jesse Tischauser Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Practiscore https://practiscore.com/results/b3601457-a598-4627-963b-e34d0c89d74a/index Wow! The stage wins are all over the place. Looks like it's all about consistency. The top of field is made up of 3-gun guys. That says something for sure about the value of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 What it says is something about the "value" of shooting three separate platforms a lot. It says nothing about the "value" of 3-gun as an entity, hobby, or sport. Congratulations Bruce! Great job!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) What it says is something about the "value" of shooting three separate platforms a lot. It says nothing about the "value" of 3-gun as an entity, hobby, or sport. Congratulations Bruce! Great job!! Well I don't see a bunch of top SASS guys on the top. So shooting 3-gun sure seems to help. But thanks for pointing out that I'm wrong even though you're agreeing with me. Edited September 29, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I don't see any of the top SASS guys in the roster at all, perhaps the match wasn't marketed in that area, oh and by the way SASS IS 3-gun as well....you know rifle, pistol, shotgun....so I am missing your point entirely. Are you saying that only 3-gun with modern weapons has value? All the top guys in this match love to shoot. They aren't just 3-gunners. I see state sporting clay champions, USPSA pistol champions, sniper match champions, Bianchi Cup Champions, bulls eye and camp Perry champions....etc. In many cases they are all rolled into the same guys, but it isn't because of 3-gun, it is because they love to shoot. You know them through 3-gun, but that isn't what made them great. The love of shooting vastly different gun games and applying that knowledge to all the shooting disciples made them great. Don't over value the venue, value the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) I don't see any of the top SASS guys in the roster at all, perhaps the match wasn't marketed in that area, oh and by the way SASS IS 3-gun as well....you know rifle, pistol, shotgun....so I am missing your point entirely. Are you saying that only 3-gun with modern weapons has value? All the top guys in this match love to shoot. They aren't just 3-gunners. I see state sporting clay champions, USPSA pistol champions, sniper match champions, Bianchi Cup Champions, bulls eye and camp Perry champions....etc. In many cases they are all rolled into the same guys, but it isn't because of 3-gun, it is because they love to shoot. You know them through 3-gun, but that isn't what made them great. The love of shooting vastly different gun games and applying that knowledge to all the shooting disciples made them great. Don't over value the venue, value the ability. There is a SASS stage in the match. I guess those guys must not be NRA members because I got a bunch of emails from NRA about the match.A bunch of these guys all shoot 3-gun as their primary competition choice these days. You're right that trigger time isn't good practice for the other disciplines. In fact it probably hurts their long range rifle skills, or their USPSA pistol skills and probably their sporting clays skills. Now that you mention it I'm surprised shooting 3-gun every weekend hasn't dropped them to the bottom of the scores. I simply said 3-gun added value. I didn't say their bianchi cup experience, USPSA experience, precision rifle experience, sportsmanship team challenge experience or any other experience hurts them. I simple stated that 3-gun is valuable. If you don't think 3-gun helps keeps those other trigger skills sharp you obviously aren't shooting the matches I'm shooting these days. Edited September 29, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm a life member of the NRA and never got a single email about this match, and thats ok. Shooting a lot is a good thing to keep you good at shooting. I know for sure that I'm not shooting the matches you shoot, because I haven't seen you at the matches I have shot, so on that point I agree. As for the value of 3-gun, it is a small little nitch in a really big pool of shooting sports that happens to offer a fairly good prize structure which attracts some fairly talented shooters who can at least pay for a shooting vacation if they do well. That is the value of 3-gun. It is a chicken and egg argument. I feel that the good shooters came because of the prize structure, not that they shot 3-gun and became good shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosiershooter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I have to agree with Jesse. I shot this match and being a solid 3 gunner would be a huge advantage. And yes most of the top shooters were 3 gun shooters. I know it has focused me to shoot more 3 gun as a prep for the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Outstanding, any reason to shoot more is a good reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I thought it was pretty heavily biased towards things 3 gun shooters are good at. Five of the stages would have been right at home in a three gun match. Either as a whole stage or a part of one. Of course I sucked at almost all of those stages. Did the best at the non three gun ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I thought it was pretty heavily biased towards things 3 gun shooters are good at. Five of the stages would have been right at home in a three gun match. Either as a whole stage or a part of one. Of course I sucked at almost all of those stages. Did the best at the non three gun ones. May have seemed that way because 3 gun shares a skill set with so many other shooting styles. I consider myself a 3 gunner, but I shoot several other match styles for the following reasons: USPSA/Knockdown Steel - Live fire pistol practice on the clock, uses same skills are pistol portions of 3 Gun USCA 2-Gun: Transitions between firearms, and practice handling a slung rifle. Pistol/rifle skills needed are shared with 3 gun I don't shot them but the same could be said for the DMR and America's Rifle stages To be a high end 3 Gunner you will have to have a skill set to lends itself to success in multiple disciplines, just nature of the beast if you will. That's why a guy like Greg Jordan can win the 3 Gun Nation title, USCA title, and DMR title. That's why Bruce Piatt won this year. Not only is he an accomplished 3 gunner, but he is also an accomplished Bianci and bullseye shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnChambers Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) That's why Bruce Piatt won this year. Not only is he an accomplished 3 gunner, but he is also an accomplished Bianci and bullseye shooter. He's pretty handy at clay shooting as well, so it shows that a good all-round shooter has a chance of doing well. Consistency across all disciplines will get you somewhere in the top 25 but to be at the top you also need to be very good at more than one too. Edited September 30, 2015 by JohnChambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Some stuff to consider 1) The match fee was seemingly high at $395... however that's a mere pittance compared to what it would be buying into any 1 of the disciplines represented, let alone all of them! Guns, accessories, custom work, ammo, long range dope figured out... and then a stacked prize table with the guns, optics, ammo, and accessories used during the match? Awesome. 2) Shooting different disciplines rewarded competitors who had wider exposure to the various shooting sports (that aren't found on Enos) however since all but one course of fire was using modern guns, a high performing 3 gunner should expect to be pretty competitive. Going the extra mile to practice a Bianchi mover or sporting clays would set that person up for even larger success. 3) Some of this match was about luck (as always). I'll pick on the PRS stage because it's the easiest. Those rifles were zeroed so perfectly that without a wind effect to worry about, the hits were guaranteed (front bipod, rear bag, 2 minutes for 5 shots). However if the wind was rocking... then good luck shooting someone else's gun 800 yards with a dope that you didn't figure out yourself. 4) The aim of this competition was to see how well you can apply sight alignment and trigger control on demand. Sometimes it was how accurately can you do it, sometimes it was how fast can you do it, but there weren't any non-shooting tasks to distract you from what you were there to do - get on targets and press triggers. I really liked that this was purely about shooting. 5) The match winner Bruce Piatt regularly placed in the top 10 for each course of fire but his scores at DMR and PRS were statistical outliers from his normal range, coming in at 30th and 56th respectively. As a stage points match it goes to show scoring favors well rounded shooters and you don't have to win everything, to win everything. Edited September 30, 2015 by Moltke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lppd4 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Looking at the results the top amateur had more points than the top pro. How was score computed and what makes you a pro for this match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Pro vs Am designation was simply whatever you declared yourself when you registered for the match The high scores in each event for the "Pro" division might be 100/100 on Bullseye, 100/100 on standing rimfire, or 25/25 for Wobble For the average person who's not a regular competitor that could be an intimidating thing to have the bar set so high, so the Am division was created The high scores in each event for the "Am" division might be 70/100 on Bullseye, 65/100 on standing rimfire, or 12/25 for Wobble Here's how the stage points worked per stage Coming in 1st = 250 points Coming in 2nd = 249 points Coming in 3rd = 248 points ... and so on down to the last person in the division Whatever Pro won a course of fire got 250 points for it, and whatever Am won that same course of fire also got 250 However the high score for a Pro might be 30 sec for the 3-Gun stage, whereas for an Am it might have been 60 sec Either way, they still won their division and get the maximum points Shooting a perfect match and winning every stage would be 3000 possible points but nobody came close to that The top Pro shot 2631 and the top Am shot 2684 Even though the top Am had more stage points as an aggregate, its because they placed higher more consistently against other Am's Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lppd4 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yes makes perfect sense. I figured it was something like that thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Is anyone that shot this match going to shoot the Trijicon Shooting Challenge in a few weeks? A head-to-head comparison of these two very similar format matches would be enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosiershooter Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Is anyone that shot this match going to shoot the Trijicon Shooting Challenge in a few weeks? A head-to-head comparison of these two very similar format matches would be enlightening. I plan to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm a life member of the NRA and never got a single email about this match, and thats ok. I am too (since high school) and didn't hear anything about it until the day before. Sad that the NRA didn't do any outreach to its members about it, especially since the match was 3 hours from my house and I would have volunteered to work it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm a life member of the NRA and never got a single email about this match, and thats ok. I am too (since high school) and didn't hear anything about it until the day before. Sad that the NRA didn't do any outreach to its members about it, especially since the match was 3 hours from my house and I would have volunteered to work it! Life member as well and I got several emails about it. Sounds like the NRA was just lazy about emailing all members, or their email system crapped the bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnChambers Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Is anyone that shot this match going to shoot the Trijicon Shooting Challenge in a few weeks? A head-to-head comparison of these two very similar format matches would be enlightening. I'll be there. I suspect it will be similar. I've never been to Rockcastle, so I don't know if that's likely to change things a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy42 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Is anyone that shot this match going to shoot the Trijicon Shooting Challenge in a few weeks? A head-to-head comparison of these two very similar format matches would be enlightening. I wanted to, but it was the same time as my anniversary But now that I am becoming single I am out of vacation time and money to make the trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm a life member of the NRA and never got a single email about this match, and thats ok. I am too (since high school) and didn't hear anything about it until the day before. Sad that the NRA didn't do any outreach to its members about it, especially since the match was 3 hours from my house and I would have volunteered to work it! Life member as well and I got several emails about it. Sounds like the NRA was just lazy about emailing all members, or their email system crapped the bed I swear it was through one of the many NRA email outlets. Problems the NRA sports stuff. I know peacemaker emailed me several times too. For those not on Facebook there was a lot of chatter there too. Heck most matches and events do more thru Facebook now then anywhere else. Yore missing out if you don't have at least s simple empty account with no personal info to see what stuff is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I had to be proactive and I contacted the NRA. I'm signed up to work the 2016 match (and shoot it for free). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now