videoing other shooters. Does one need permission to place it on the w

[bret]

The Courts have ruled at the Federal Level you can video record and take pictures in public where there is no expectation of privacy.

You don't need anyone's permission.

But if someone doesn't want to be video taped or have their video put on YouTube I think the proper thing to do is honor their request.

I shot a lot of video and pictures at Area 6 MultiGun, one young looking guy asked me not to publish any of his video or pictures, I hot the impression he was an undercover LEO, he said his bosses did not allow any pictures or video of him to be posted.

He asked me in a very polite manner, made a very reasonable request and I honored his request.

that ruling depends on whether you are on public or private land ....the 'expectation of privacy' only extends in public places on public property .... if you're walking on a street in the middle of downtown NYC at noon on a Wed then yes, there is no expecation of privacy ... if you're on someone's privately owned shooting range you need permission of the proprety owner and the prpoerty owner is not going to violate the privacy rights of his guests (shooters in this case) without their permission .....

In a public event such as a shooting match, even though it is on private property, there is no expectation of privacy.

[Nimitz]

No, you require the permission of the property owner if you plan to take video or still images while on their property because in legal terms public event & private property are different. It's private property and therefore the property owner gets to make an assessment of "expectation of privacy'.

Ever go to a public event like a concert or movie or play where there is a sign that says "no photography"? Ever see what happens when you get caught taking pictures ....?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Nimitz

[bret]

No, you require the permission of the property owner if you plan to take video or still images while on their property because in legal terms public event & private property are different. It's private property and therefore the property owner gets to make an assessment of "expectation of privacy'.

Ever go to a public event like a concert or movie or play where there is a sign that says "no photography"? Ever see what happens when you get caught taking pictures ....?

If a property owner such as a concert event or a gun range wants to restrict people from taking pictures or video on their property, they can post signs and stop people from video recording or taking pictures.

If no such signs are posted, or restrictions placed on videotaping by the property owner, I can video tape and take all the pictures I want to even without the person's permission, I can also legally post the video or pictures anywhere I want to.

You should check the law.

[trgt]

At Tier 1 matches, which are open only to USPSA members to participate in the match, and where there is no expectation of a public 'gallery' at a private range, I would not consider that to be a 'public event' ... it is not "created by and/or for the general public"

Major matches with sponsors and public galleries, sure that's public, but I don't think that's the original question.

[bret]

At Tier 1 matches, which are open only to USPSA members to participate in the match, and where there is no expectation of a public 'gallery' at a private range, I would not consider that to be a 'public event' ... it is not "created by and/or for the general public"

Major matches with sponsors and public galleries, sure that's public, but I don't think that's the original question.

There is no expectation of privacy at events such as you described.

How many people video themselves ,and others shooting at tier 1 events?

On our squad of 10 yesterday, more,than half would have their friends video for them, one guy brought his gd she recorded almost every shooter on our squad shoot every stage.

I recorded done and shot pictures.

It was a private range, the guy that runs it video taped some of the shooters and posted video online.

[Nimitz]

No, you require the permission of the property owner if you plan to take video or still images while on their property because in legal terms public event & private property are different. It's private property and therefore the property owner gets to make an assessment of "expectation of privacy'.

Ever go to a public event like a concert or movie or play where there is a sign that says "no photography"? Ever see what happens when you get caught taking pictures ....?

If a property owner such as a concert event or a gun range wants to restrict people from taking pictures or video on their property, they can post signs and stop people from video recording or taking pictures.

If no such signs are posted, or restrictions placed on videotaping by the property owner, I can video tape and take all the pictures I want to even without the person's permission, I can also legally post the video or pictures anywhere I want to.

You should check the law.

I don't need to since I already understand them quite well. I don't know the laws in your state but I can assure you that if you take pictures or video of an event on property owned by me, regardless of whether I've posted a sign or not, and I have not given you express permission to do so, you will be violating individuals privacy rights unless the specific person in question has given you permission and there is no other person recognizable in the image or video ....

Individuals retain the exclusive rights to their likeness, without question, unless the individual specifically gives up those rights. Images taken on public property at public events being the exception. A competition held at privately owned shooting range fits neither of these criteria & the absense of a sign is not sufficent for an individual to have forfieted their privacy rights ...

Edited August 17, 2015 by Nimitz

[bret]

No, you require the permission of the property owner if you plan to take video or still images while on their property because in legal terms public event & private property are different. It's private property and therefore the property owner gets to make an assessment of "expectation of privacy'.

Ever go to a public event like a concert or movie or play where there is a sign that says "no photography"? Ever see what happens when you get caught taking pictures ....?

If a property owner such as a concert event or a gun range wants to restrict people from taking pictures or video on their property, they can post signs and stop people from video recording or taking pictures.

If no such signs are posted, or restrictions placed on videotaping by the property owner, I can video tape and take all the pictures I want to even without the person's permission, I can also legally post the video or pictures anywhere I want to.

You should check the law.

I don't need to since I already understand them quite well. I don't know the laws in your state but I can assure you that if you take pictures or video of an event on property owned by me, regardless of whether I've posted a sign or not, and I have not given you express permission to do so, you will be violating individuals privacy rights unless the specific person in question has given you permission and there is no other person recognizable in the image or video ....

Individuals retain the exclusive rights to their likeness, without question, unless the individual specifically gives up those rights. Images taken on public property at public events being the exception. A competition held at privately owned shooting range fits neither of these criteria & the absense of a sign is not sufficent for an individual to have forfieted their privacy rights ...

If you as a property owner wish to keep people from video taping or taking pictures while on your property, that is your right to do that.

People in a public venue even on private property have no expectation of privacy.

You are trying to compare a movie or a concert to a public shooting event, not the same thing.

If I can view a concert or outdoor movie from public property, I can legally take pictures and or video.

Ever go to a shooting event where cameras were not allowed?

I never have, most people see me shooting pictures or video with my Canon 1Dx and 5D MK III, they want to know where to get pictures and video from, they are happy I am taking pictures and video, I had one guy ask me not to post it on a public venue, so I honored his wish.

[MissionaryMike]

Bret, it's cool that you shoot vids and photos of shooting events. It sounds like you enjoy doing it, and certainly have the equipment for it. But I don't know you from Adam. If I saw you taking video of me in a competition, I would most likely ask you to not film me, especially if I was with a minor - even if I was having someone take video or photography of me w/ my own device. I just don't know what you'd be using that video for.

I don't know the legalities of the matter, but I'm glad to know you'd honor such a request.

[bret]

Bret, it's cool that you shoot vids and photos of shooting events. It sounds like you enjoy doing it, and certainly have the equipment for it. But I don't know you from Adam. If I saw you taking video of me in a competition, I would most likely ask you to not film me, especially if I was with a minor - even if I was having someone take video or photography of me w/ my own device. I just don't know what you'd be using that video for.

I don't know the legalities of the matter, but I'm glad to know you'd honor such a request.

I am very careful of taking pictures and video of minors, even though it is legal to do so.

If someone asks me not to take pictures, or video of them or their kids. I have no problem honoring that request.

I have kids, I would be leary if someone I didn't know was taking pictures or video of my daughter, if it was someone at the club I shoot at, that would be a little different, but I am protective of my kids, especially my girls.

The courts have ruled it is legal to take pictures and video in public places.

A shooting range is a public place even though on private property.

There is no expectation of privacy so it is legal.

If the owners of the range don't want people taking pictures they can keep people from taking pictures.

For example the Straz center does not allow any photography there unless dome by their photographers, a couple of reasons

1. The music and performance is protected by copyright.

2. Their photographers take and sell pictures for them and those pictures are copyrighted.

As a photographer I know the law. But just because I can legally do something, if someone asks me not to photograph them or especially their kid, I will honor that and would hope others would do the same.

[trgt]

FWIW, our local public range has the following posted rules (amongst their many rules):

"Commercial photography (still or video) of any sort is prohibited without written permission of the Gun Club’s Board of Directors.

Everybody has a camera now, but please do not take pictures or video of people or their property without their permission.

If someone objects to your taking pictures of them or their property, please stop immediately. Please erase any such pictures if asked."

[robport]

I guess I'm weird about it. If you are going to videotape me, don't tell me about it until after I shoot...but then ask me before publishing it.

I certainly wouldn't want to see me running a COF at high speed with Benny Hill bumper music going on in the background.

...well maybe that would be fun.

[bret]

FWIW, our local public range has the following posted rules (amongst their many rules):

"Commercial photography (still or video) of any sort is prohibited without written permission of the Gun Clubs Board of Directors.

Everybody has a camera now, but please do not take pictures or video of people or their property without their permission.

If someone objects to your taking pictures of them or their property, please stop immediately. Please erase any such pictures if asked."

So many holes in that policy it is unenforceable, I don't take pictures of people that object but once a picture or video is taken, it is private property owned by the photographer.

How are you going to make them delete the picture and or video?

My equipment belongs to me, photographs I take are lawfully mine, I am courteous and cautious with my photography, especially so with young kids and girls.

How does the club define commercial photography?

Is it considered commercial if the guy has professional equipment?

If the club doesn't want photography or wants to control the photographs and videos being taken it is better to not allow any photography except by photographers and videoographers the club hires, aa the above policy is unenforceable.

Of the club objected to photography by an individual they could ask the person to stop and depending on the bylaws of the club, ask them to leave, trying to make them delete photos and or video is problematic for many reasons.

1. It is private property and as soon as the picture is taken. The copyright belongs to the photographer.

2. What if the photographer refuses to show you his pictures?

3. Even after a picture or video is erased, it can still be recovered. With digital information, it is never really gone.

4. When you hire a professional photographer, the pictures and video copyright belongs to the photographer.

5. Photos and video are private property and belong to the photographer.

[bret]

I guess I'm weird about it. If you are going to videotape me, don't tell me about it until after I shoot...but then ask me before publishing it.

I certainly wouldn't want to see me running a COF at high speed with Benny Hill bumper music going on in the background.

...well maybe that would be fun.

Never thought of adding Benny Hill music, but that music is copyrighted, copyrighted music automatically gets flagged and pulled when posted online.

[teros135]

Can anyone who is an attorney in their "other" life and knows the the relevant law please comment on the applicability of the variety of Federal, state and and local laws to this topic? It's not simple and, like anything, has variations by state and venue.

Edited August 24, 2015 by teros135

[MissionaryMike]

I don't think we need to get so worked up about photography at shooting events, whether we consider them to be public or private. I have a youngster I'd like to get into competition shooting one day (if she wants), and I'm pretty sure I won't want any pictures of her showing up on someone's YouTube or something. I consider it my responsibility to protect her from something like that occurring. It wouldn't take much to ask an RO or the MD to make an announcement during the pre-match meeting that the parent of the minor (me) does not give permission to take pictures or video of the child. Only I'm allowed to do that .

[bret]

I don't think we need to get so worked up about photography at shooting events, whether we consider them to be public or private. I have a youngster I'd like to get into competition shooting one day (if she wants), and I'm pretty sure I won't want any pictures of her showing up on someone's YouTube or something. I consider it my responsibility to protect her from something like that occurring. It wouldn't take much to ask an RO or the MD to make an announcement during the pre-match meeting that the parent of the minor (me) does not give permission to take pictures or video of the child. Only I'm allowed to do that .

My younger daughter is 14. I take her to a club I belong to to shoot, if I notice someone taking anything more than a casual or incidental picture or video of her, and I don't know who they are, I will ask thme to not do it anymore, if they are taking pictures or video of another shooter and my daughter happens to be in frame, it is what it is.

Everyone has cell phones, many people have Go Pro's or other type of video cameras, I have Pivot Head glasses, they record HD video and take pictures too.

I just assume I am always on camera.

I am not getting worked up over it and I respect people's wishes and will not video them or take pictures.

At a kids practice I had my camera and since there was a self important so called celebrity that went through a new shooters class was worried people would take his picture, we were asked to not take his picture. I turned my camera off, I think the guy is a douche bag and wouldn't take his picture anyway.

So my daughter is stI'll shooting and an R.O. asks me to put my camera up, I told him it was off, he said I had to put it away.

So I out it uo, was now no longer able to take pictures of my daughter shooting, or get a picture of her with the people that volunteer to help out with the juniors.

It wrapped up,we left, and ended up going down the road to a local gun store to look at a gun for her, Mr douche bag shows up there.

So at a gun club I am a member of, I was told to put my camera away, was unable to get pictures of my daughter with the guys that helped her, to make a has been happy.

Kind of crappy if you ask me.

There is nothing in the clubs bylaws about taking pictures and there are several video cameras running at the club.

When you are in public, there is no expectation of privacy.

I have daughters I am protective of, but I also know there isn't much that can be done about keeping people from taking pictures, it's just some of my cameras are more obvious than others.

Most people don't even know what pivot heads are,so they don't know if they are being recorded.

With that being said, I would never take pictures of young kids unless I had permission or I was asked to.

There is a brother and sister that shoot where I do, both are good, I took video of the boy, because I think he is 18, not the girl, I think she is 15 or 16.

If a parent asked me not to take pictures or video, I would honor their request.

[MissionaryMike]

Bret, for the record, I wasn't implying that you were the one getting worked up. If anything, I think my last comment made it clear that those opposed to having their pictures taken can only do so much. Once anyone takes any reasonable measure to block photos and videos, should they so choose, that's really all they can do. You can't guarantee the actions of others.