Hammer can be dropped from half-cock with trigger

[cz75ipsc]

I did a search on this problem and couldn't find any definitive answers.

I have a Dawson Super Group installed on my STI Edge. The hammer

will drop from half-cock with a relatively heavy pull on the trigger. The

half-cock notch on the Koenig hammer looks very different from the

original hammer's h-c notch, and I was wondering if it is indeed a h-c

notch (I've read that not all hammers have one). Can anyone clarify

this for me?

If there should be a half-cock on the hammer, I think it's safe to say

mine isn't working the way it should. I was told it may have something

to do with the take-up of the trigger since when the hammer is

half-cocked, there is no take-up on the trigger (apparently it should

have?). I don't see how it could be that I don't have enough take-up

because I actually bent the little metal thingy on the trigger bar (the

one you adjust take-up with) backwards to maximize take-up.

Another reason I can think of is the sear spring. I bent it without a

trigger pull gauge so I don't know if the pull is 50/50 between the

middle finger and the right finger of the sear spring (as it apparently

should be). The pull is around 1100g (2,5 pounds).

Finally, I'd like to know how dangerous is it to have a gun with a h-c

like this one? Someone actually said here in another post that the h-c

is not used for anything in a 1911-platform gun, so I'm thinking: Does

it really matter that mine doesn't work the way it should?

Thanks

[Brazos Custom]

The short answer is yes the Koenig hammer has a half cock notch and yes it should work. Also the amount of take-up will affect whether your half cock notch works. A minimum amount of pre-travel or take-up needs to be there for the half cock notch to work properly usually 0.030 to 0.040 inch.

More info here: Trigger tuning

[chuckbradley]

Last year before the Area 5 I had several shooters worried that their guns were going to be disqualified at the Chrono because of soemthing they read about the hammer falling from halfcock when the trigger was pulled. I had a talk with our Chrono man and he said that some hammers have a passive halfcock and some have positive half cock. As long as the hammer goes to halfcock then it is working. Whether it falls when the trigger is pulled when it is at halfcock doesnt matter, some will(passive) , some wont(positive), the thing that matters is that it stops at halfcock in the first place.

[Carmoney]

My first 1911, an early stainless Colt Govt. Model, would always drop the hammer from half-cock when the trigger was pulled. I thought they were all that way for a long time, and in fact I believe that is the way that particular model functioned.

Who cares? There's nothing dangerous about it. The half-cock is only there to catch the hammer if it falls off full-cock for some reason (which should never happen), right?

Mike

[Jasonub]

my koenig drops from half cock when the trigger is pulled

[cz75ipsc]

The half-cock is only there to catch the hammer if it falls off full-cock for some reason (which should never happen), right?

That's how I figure also.

my koenig drops from half cock when the trigger is pulled

Honestly, that's the answer I was waiting for If I'm not mistaken, Jasonub, you shoot IPSC (as opposed to USPSA), right? And you've been to major matches with a gun like that and it hasn't been checked and deemed unsafe on the chrono stage (as apparently it would be in USPSA)? At least from what I gather from the link posted by Bob, there is a difference between USPSA and IPSC in this safety check. And I'm glad it's this way, since I can't for the life of me figure out how to make it function any other way. Thanks guys.

[Jasonub]

IPSC Philippines, standard div.

[Brazos Custom]

Can't tell you for sure what will happen at the chrono stage that is always open for interpretation, but the Koenig hammer is a captive halfcock notch type (or positive type as Chuck says) and as such the hammer should not fall when the trigger is pulled from half cock.

The pre-travel measurement is done when the hammer is at full cock. More pre-travel will allow the sear to fully engage the half cock notch and not drop. The captive type notch is prevalent on most after market hammers on the market today.

If you are having problems setting it up any competent gunsmith can make the adjustment so that the hammer will not fall.

Having it setup so that it works is a nice safety feature and it also helps if you are having other problems with your trigger because if your hammer follows it will actually stop at the halfcock notch. What happens on the shelf type notches is that you continue to pull the trigger and the hammer drops all the way and gives a light strike or sets of the next round.

[bountyhunter]

On some hammers I have seen, the half cock "notch" actually has a lip on the front so it is more like a "cup" that catches the sear nose. That makes it much more secure in capturing the sear nose. Problem is, you can sometimes pull hard enough on the trigger to rotate the sear past this lip and get the hammer to fall... and in the process, you are tearing up the sear nose because you are forcing the sear face to drag across that sharp edge on the lip.

I agree that the half cock notch is just that: to catch the hammer if you slip on a thumb decock or if the hammer falls off the full cock notch when the slide comes forward.

IMO, trying to "trigger force" a hammer to fall from HC is not a valid test and downright dumb since it may tear up the sear.

[pcschwenke]

I checked my half cock on my Koenig hammer this weekend. Mine does the same thing so I started to check it out. The only way to get the hammer to the half cock notch is to allow the sear to swing farther forward, which in my gun is not possible. If you have a pre-travel adjustment on your trigger bend in so there is more pre-travel. This should solve your problem. My trigger does not have one. I'm wondering why the half cock and full cock notches are so different in the amount of movement the sear has to swing on the Koening hammer? Anyone?

Koenig hammer has the cup style half cock notch.

Paul

[Jasonub]

If it does not discharge, forgetaboutit. Imho, i have the same thing happening but i have accepted it. my pretravel(slack???) is very huge like my overtravel. I just learned not to tinker with it since it does not give me any problems.

good luck

[bountyhunter]

I'm wondering why the half cock and full cock notches are so different in the amount of movement the sear has to swing on the Koening hammer?  Anyone?

Koenig hammer has the cup style half cock notch.

Paul

The "full cock" notch is usually cut to about .020" - .024" height to give the short, sharp breaking trigger release we all want our gun to have. The half-cock notch is intentionally taller to securely catch the sear nose if the hammer slips when you are thumb lowering.

If the overtravel screw is set up too tight, the sear can be moved far enough to let the hammer fall from full cock, but the sear nose can drag (or hang) on the half cock notch. There must be enough sear movement so that both hammer notches can pass by the sear without dragging when the trigger is pulled.

[Glock35]

I sent my Advantage back to Dawson when I noticed my Koenig dropping from half cock when the trigger was pulled. Dawson stated that was completely normal for the Koenig to do this and returned the pistol.

Larry May