Alaskapopo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks Kurt I knew there had to be more to the story. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) There's no defined cap at 300, I have shot matches with targets further out than that, and at the nordic championship this year you had cut off targets at 300 placed next to no-shoots where 6x was barely enough because the dot in the Z6i covers the entire target and the std division shooters couldn't differentiate the targets. Which is one of the things people like about the new Zeiss V8, the dot is smaller, and obviously, you have the 8x zoom. 4X used to be enough, but not really anymore, the sport is getting more technical and shooting is more difficult. but targets further than 300 is not very common, since 200 and 300 is the normal lenght of shooting ranges, at least in the nordics. And in other european countries you can barely even find 200m ranges. At the recent euro rifle championship the furthest target was a mini popper at 250. I still think I would have shot the LDI reticle even with ranges out to 5-600 though, but thats my personal opinion. One of our training ranges we can shoot out to 900, so I'm not unfamiliar with shooting at distance. And I can say that varying target distances is quite common here, you get everything from super close to 300-350 in the same stage. So how common is 5-600m shooting in 3gun? I've heard people say 3gun is mostly short range hosing with hits anywhere on paper, which shouldn't really make BDC reticles necessary? Edited August 27, 2015 by slemmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Once again Slemmo, I am well aware of how matches are run in the Nordic countries. Matter of fact you have even seen me there and we have talked. Remember the Nordic in Finland last year? Euro Rifle when it was in Norway? It is not that common to have 5-600m shots but every match has a few long targets. I'm telling you it is night and day, come on over and see for yourself, then form an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Yep, I think we briefly might have said hello at the nordic in Finland last year, the 300m stages at that match incidentally is one of the few matches I've shot the last couple of years that had targets placed at only 300, and not everywhere inbetween though, usually you get targets at several distances in the same stage. But I started in 2011, so I only have experience from matches since then. I've shot most major matches in the nordics since 2012. I'd love to come over, but as it is now I'm sort of obliged to shoot the major european matches which already cost a lot in travel and ammo, so....maybe when I get older Edited August 27, 2015 by slemmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So European IPSC rifle matches would be more Bianchi cup-ish compared to domestic 3-gun? I have been watching a few IPSC shotgun videos lately, seems like the stages are shorter and faster on average. Sorry for the thread drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ipsc rifle matches have long courses up to 40 rounds and varies alot depending on the stage designers, some will have you run 50 yards between shooting position and some will have you run 50 yards the entire match, some make simple stages where you can make a perfect stage plan in 30 seconds and others are so intricate you have to watch the prematch the day before you shoot. You never really know what you're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 No it isn't Bianchi cupish by any means. It is a very good test of true rifle use, as the scoring is hit factor where a, c, d and speed make all the difference. You will see a lot of movement, low ports, awkward shooting positions, much more than just hose and go prone. I really enjoy the matches over there, I've been going since 2007 for rifle. AND all the targets are visible at all times of the day rain or shine, they all fall if steel and it isn't uncommon to have a stage of all paper out to 300 m. I wish U.S. match director would implement half of what they do over there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheus Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If Taran and Vogel can use a Trijicon and can kill courses it just comes down to practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 There was a small discussion about USPSA rifle only matches in the US on another forum a while ago, maybe something is going to happen in the future. I just hope the ruleset will be compatible with ipsc rifle, so we can have some sort of common ground to compare shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) No it isn't Bianchi cupish by any means. It is a very good test of true rifle use, as the scoring is hit factor where a, c, d and speed make all the difference. You will see a lot of movement, low ports, awkward shooting positions, much more than just hose and go prone. I really enjoy the matches over there, I've been going since 2007 for rifle. AND all the targets are visible at all times of the day rain or shine, they all fall if steel and it isn't uncommon to have a stage of all paper out to 300 m. I wish U.S. match director would implement half of what they do over there! If your ever had more free time in the future, would you consider doing the match director gig again? I would be the first guy to sign up for your match! Edited August 27, 2015 by bmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne101 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Does anyone make a throw lever for this Scope yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 it's integrated on the zoom ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne101 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Looking for something a little longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llandaff Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 So European IPSC rifle matches would be more Bianchi cup-ish compared to domestic 3-gun? I have been watching a few IPSC shotgun videos lately, seems like the stages are shorter and faster on average. Sorry for the thread drift. As for Shotgun, our stages are much less linear than your 3-gun. For example you will never see a row of evenly spaced identical clays in IPSC shotgun. Almost always you have a lot of gameplan options. Lot of shotgun swinging left and right, lot of short movements, few shots from each position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) So European IPSC rifle matches would be more Bianchi cup-ish compared to domestic 3-gun? I have been watching a few IPSC shotgun videos lately, seems like the stages are shorter and faster on average. Sorry for the thread drift. As for Shotgun, our stages are much less linear than your 3-gun. For example you will never see a row of evenly spaced identical clays in IPSC shotgun. Almost always you have a lot of gameplan options. Lot of shotgun swinging left and right, lot of short movements, few shots from each position. That depends from match to match and what the stage designers has to work with. I've seen both the "crowd of targets, use a spreader choke" stages as well as "its snipe hunt through woods, you better take them on the move and hunt for them" types. As with rifle, I think there is a danger of taking youtube too seriously, as a lot of stages are not photogenic and a lot of people prefer to post the zoomy-zoom-zoom stages as they look cooler on video. Of 3 majors I've shot this year so far made up of 24 stages total, I think about 16 involved rifle shots at 200+, another 4-5 had rifle shots past 100, and 5-6 stages were jungle runs with shotgun targets all over the place. And probably 10-12 stages involved slugs, a few of those over 100 as well. I guess what I'm saying is that 3gun is more varied that it might look on youtube. Edited September 1, 2015 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llandaff Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I guess what I'm saying is that 3gun is more varied that it might look on youtube. Thanks, because I was judging 3gun by youtube As for distance in IPSC Rifle: 1.2.1.5 The recommended balance for an IPSC Rifle match with regards to target distance is: 30% of all targets to be less than 60 meters, 50% to be between 60 and 150 meters and 20% to be between 150 and 300 meters. So 300m limit is a recommendation, not a rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I guess what I'm saying is that 3gun is more varied that it might look on youtube. Thanks, because I was judging 3gun by youtube Sorry if that came across as condescending, it was not intended that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If Taran and Vogel can use a Trijicon and can kill courses it just comes down to practice The shooter is one factor and equipment is another. I bet Taran and Vogel could beat most of us here with just iron sights but that does not mean we won't do better with optics ourselves. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You lost me at the .1 mil windage and elevation adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Jessie, just think of it this way, 1 clickie moves the bullet hit spot a little bit. Just keep turning knobs until the bullet thingy hits the spot on the target thingy when you pull the trigger doohickey. Milliradians are the shit, a measure of angle not based on a fixed unit, but instead on a fraction. Here is the way I like to think about it, because it is the way I think about everything. 1 mil is exactly the length of my dick at a distance of exactly 1000 times the length of my dick. The really cool thing about this formula is that it works for every man no matter the length of his dick! This is why it is easy to communicate in mils. Everyone can relate to mils because they can all find common ground with the math. And if your dick is a meter long that works out super well as then it is easily divisible by 10's. If your your spotter calls a correction of a full mil then you have options, you can dial ten clicks into your scope if it has .1 mil turrets, you can use your retical to hold the correction if your scope is equipped with a mil graduated retical (and it us first focal plane or set to the calibrated power), or you can do the math in your head by taking the range to the target, dividing it by 1000 and adjusting you aim by the result. Now you also know why many people zero the rifle at 100 yards or meters, about a thousand dick lengths! Math is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I had s Steiner M5Xi that had mil adjustments on the windage and elevation. I could never remember how many clicks was enough inches. I gues if you shoot precision rifle scopes s lot it's east but the other 25 scope son my safe are all 1 click equals 1/2" @ 100. So that's what I like cause it's what I'm used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 So the contention here is that one way of measuring an angle is somehow dramatically better then another way of measuring an angle? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 No contention here, just sharing some fun facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 No contention here, just sharing some fun facts.. Doing quick math would put the object in question just under 4 inches with the exact length dependent on the units selected. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 No contention here, just sharing some fun facts.. Doing quick math would put the object in question just under 4 inches with the exact length dependent on the units selected. Doug Hahahahaha!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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