ctay Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Having a strange problem with my reloads on my M&P pro. Tried the same recipe that I use for my CZ and I'm getting failure to extract once or twice per magazine. This happens only on the reloads as factory ammo runs fine with no failure to extracts. Here are all the relevant details that I can think of: Load: 124gr MGJHP 4.0 gr Titegroup OAL 1.100 PF 138 Decent accuracy Loaded with Lee U die on a 1050. Magazines: Brand new with TTI Extensions to hold 23. FTE happens almost every time at the 6th round (doesn't extract the 5th round) but also usually around the 15th round as well (but less consistently). I've tried several different magazines and it happens regardless of the magazine. I forgot to bring a mag without the TTI base-pad to the range to test but I'll do that tomorrow and see if it changes anything. Even if that turns out to be the problem I need to figure out how to make the TTI pads work. Gun:Apex M&P Competition Action Enhancement Kit Apex M&P Failure Resistant Extractor (ironically) Again, the FTE has only ever happened with my reloads. Reloads "plunk" just fine in the barrel and seem to be good as far as I can tell. They run 100% in my CZ75. (Not my picture, but my failures look exactly like this.) Looking for any advice. Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saab Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Both of my pro's started doing that with the factory extractor at around 5K rounds. I went with the Apex extractor and the SSS extra power spring and haven't had another one in 20K rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Saab is on the right path. Start by replacing the Extractor spring. The round is left in the chamber because the extractor hook is slipping off of the rim of the case. That can only happen if the extractor spring is too weak or the actual extractor hook tip is worn out. Get an extra power extractor spring and retest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I just thought of another possibility that would be unique to your reloads. If you have too much crimp on the brass it will allow the leading edge of the brass to extend forward of the stopping point in the chamber. When the round fires in this situation the leading edge of the brass is smashed into the smaller portion of the chamber and requires a lot more force to extract. That extraction force may be more than what your extractor or extractor spring can handle and it slips off of the rim of the case instead of extracting the brass. Double check your crimp to make sure its not too aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'll order a new extractor spring today. On the crimp, I gave it enough crimp to leave a little crease on a pulled bullet. Maybe I have too much crease? I'll pull some tonight and see if I can get a good picture. That could explain why factory will fire fine but reloads won't. I could also have a short chamber in the M&P so short chamber + tight crimp = too deep. Even only a few millimeters could be too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'll order a new extractor spring today. On the crimp, I gave it enough crimp to leave a little crease on a pulled bullet. Maybe I have too much crease? I'll pull some tonight and see if I can get a good picture. That could explain why factory will fire fine but reloads won't. I could also have a short chamber in the M&P so short chamber + tight crimp = too deep. Even only a few millimeters could be too much. You need to measure the crimp rather than go by crease in the bullet. I crimp mine to .377, I also use a Supermatch hundo gauge. anything more than .377 makes the round sit proud. Maybe it's a combination of the U die and the crimp (I use a standard Dillon die) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Crimp is currently at .371. I made some rounds at .377 that I'll try today. Also will try a mag without the tti extension to see if that makes any difference. Edited April 21, 2015 by ctay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Let me know how it goes. You're using our spring, right? Did you buy them directly from us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I had problems with that on my 17. I replaced the extractor and then springs behind it and the problems went away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Update: Today tried loads with crimp at .377 - same results with FTE / Double feed at round 15. Just for comparison fired factory WWB and all cycled fine. This is really weird. I also brought along a storm lake "pre-fit" threaded barrel that I bought for a NFA item that is still in NFA jail (totally forgot I had that sitting in the safe until last night). All rounds cycled properly with the storm lake barrel - .371 crimp and .377 crimp. Additionally I got significantly tighter groups. Fired about 100 rounds and noticed that all the brass was ejecting directly right of me at 2 feet. I don't think that is especially powerful ejection so I am still going to replace the ejection spring with the SSS extra power version. My conclusion is that there is something amiss in my factory barrel and that my reloads are just different enough in shape from factory loads to cause it to be a problem. I can't tell you what exactly the problem is - it must be pretty small. For the time being (and for Multigun Nationals) I'm going to run my Storm Lake barrel - which means I have to cut a hole in the bottom of my Blade Tech holster to clear the threaded barrel. Given my luck I am certain that I will snag the barrel on the draw at least once in the match but it beats clearing FTE's on every magazine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Let me know how it goes. You're using our spring, right? Did you buy them directly from us? Did buy direct and am using the spring provided. I don't suspect the mags are the issue since they work fine with factory ammo and with the Storm Lake barrel. I have been very happy with the TTI base pads. 23 rounds of 9 is a lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Let me know how it goes. You're using our spring, right? Did you buy them directly from us? Did buy direct and am using the spring provided. I don't suspect the mags are the issue since they work fine with factory ammo and with the Storm Lake barrel. I have been very happy with the TTI base pads. 23 rounds of 9 is a lot of fun! You know, we have this issue with a customer's Glock 26 with after market barrel that is identical to your issue. The barrel locks in too low, so when the round is extracted it comes out at an angle, and catches on the brass of the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 No reason to cut a Kydex holster. Use a heat source and reshape the bottom so that the barrel can fit through. About a 10 min job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Let me know how it goes. You're using our spring, right? Did you buy them directly from us? Did buy direct and am using the spring provided. I don't suspect the mags are the issue since they work fine with factory ammo and with the Storm Lake barrel. I have been very happy with the TTI base pads. 23 rounds of 9 is a lot of fun! You know, we have this issue with a customer's Glock 26 with after market barrel that is identical to your issue. The barrel locks in too low, so when the round is extracted it comes out at an angle, and catches on the brass of the next round. That is interesting - how do I test to see if that is my issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rack&roll Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Saab is on the right path. Start by replacing the Extractor spring. The round is left in the chamber because the extractor hook is slipping off of the rim of the case. That can only happen if the extractor spring is too weak or the actual extractor hook tip is worn out. Get an extra power extractor spring and retest. Randy Lee told me that the Apex FRE (which clay has) won't work properly with the extra power extractor spring. He said to use the factory spring. Only use extra powered extractor spring with OEM extractor. Edited April 22, 2015 by rack&roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saab Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I would follow Randys advise. Although, I have shot 20K plus rounds with the FRE and the extra power spring with no failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saab Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Let me know how it goes. You're using our spring, right? Did you buy them directly from us? Did buy direct and am using the spring provided. I don't suspect the mags are the issue since they work fine with factory ammo and with the Storm Lake barrel. I have been very happy with the TTI base pads. 23 rounds of 9 is a lot of fun! You know, we have this issue with a customer's Glock 26 with after market barrel that is identical to your issue. The barrel locks in too low, so when the round is extracted it comes out at an angle, and catches on the brass of the next round. That is interesting - how do I test to see if that is my issue? If the first round seats fine when you rack, and the second round extracts hard and gets caught on the brass, then that's probably your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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