When/Where to Unholster

[whitedog]

End of a match? My understanding is after the last shot plus 1 hour due to possible arb. That's based on all I can find in the rules. Regardless of tear down, stats, etc. Those things can and are handled outside of "match time".

I know that where I normally shoot Sarge will DQ the heck out of me for gearing down at the car, but I don't see how it's legal to DQ past the hour mark.

If after a match I walk to another bay to shoot and bull crap with the boys for 1 1/2 hours, how can that be a DQ?

That said, I'm not arguing with Sarge. Would you???

[Gooldylocks]

I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it.

I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis?

I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it.

Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms.

You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.

Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away.

If there's no written rule, who's to say they're doing anything wrong?

Weak

I feel like you saying "Weak" just re-enforces the need for a specific rule. If I am at my home range, and I show up before the match to shoot a few rounds and then decide after the match I want to wander over into another bay and shoot, who are you to tell me I can't? I pay a lot of money a year to be a member, and will shoot when I like to.

Until I have registered for the match, I don't see the rules really being able to apply to me. If I showed up on a Saturday morning and haven't yet registered, but just happen to be open carrying my Limited gun that day (open carry is a legal option in Oregon) I don't think you can tell me I can't register for the match.

Sorry, but I think your "Weak" was weak.

[motosapiens]

That said, I'm not arguing with Sarge. Would you???

I totally would. He's the consummate rules guy, but here he is trying to enforce 'common sense' and admitting he doesn't have a rule. I call 'weak' on that.

Common sense is what liberals say when they don't have a valid reason, as in 'common sense gun laws' (meaning we don't have any data to support this, but it *feels* good).

[motosapiens]

10.5.1

How many stories are there every year of unloaded guns going off during "cleaning"? Over-confidence will lead to complacency. Complacency leads to accidents.

I think guns that go off during 'cleaning' are either suicides being covered up, or dumbazzes covering up their dumbazzery. (I was 'cleaning it' so i pulled the trigger while pointing it at the tv').

Regarding the rule, where exactly does that rule apply? at your house? it doesn't say.

If you look at 2.5.1 it gives you an idea of how to approach it.

"The Unloading/Loading Station should be conveniently located outside the entrance to the range (or outside the portion of the range allocated to the USPSA match)"

That makes it pretty clear to me that USPSA rules are only intended to apply to the portion of the range allocated to the USPSA match, which may or may not include the parking lot or other bays at the club's discretion.

In fact, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to include the parking lot, especially in states where it's common for people to carry firearms. If you do include the parking lot, then you are essentially requiring ccw-ers to stop on the way in somewhere (or perhaps outside the range) and handle their guns. I'd rather put an unloading station in the parking lot, or just declare the parking lot to be not part of the match (which I know will rub some common-sensers the wrong way).

[MAC702]

10.5.1

How many stories are there every year of unloaded guns going off during "cleaning"? Over-confidence will lead to complacency. Complacency leads to accidents.

No one is arguing complacency. You aren't proposing a solution, either. Let's say it's time to clean your daily-carried firearm. Do you drive down to the nearest range so you can unholster it and unload it while it points at a bullet berm, then repeat after you are done cleaning it? Or are you as methodical and safe as you can be while loading and unloading it at home?

Again, WHEN and WHERE exactly does Rule 10.5.1 count? I maintain that they left it vague on purpose.

Edited March 17, 2015 by MAC702

[MAC702]

...In fact, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to include the parking lot, especially in states where it's common for people to carry firearms. If you do include the parking lot, then you are essentially requiring ccw-ers to stop on the way in somewhere (or perhaps outside the range) and handle their guns....

This. Otherwise it would also include ANY loaded firearms ANYWHERE in your vehicle, like moving the the loaded shotgun behind the seat to a more hidden location.

Edited March 17, 2015 by MAC702

[Sarge]

...In fact, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to include the parking lot, especially in states where it's common for people to carry firearms. If you do include the parking lot, then you are essentially requiring ccw-ers to stop on the way in somewhere (or perhaps outside the range) and handle their guns....

This. Otherwise it would also include ANY loaded firearms ANYWHERE in your vehicle, like moving the the loaded shotgun behind the seat to a more hidden location.

We are using handgun rules. At least that's what the rule book is called. Moving a shotgun around in the car matters little to me. Gunning up for the match means a lot to me.

The rules also address CCW holders in the absence of an unloading station.

[MAC702]

...In fact, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to include the parking lot, especially in states where it's common for people to carry firearms. If you do include the parking lot, then you are essentially requiring ccw-ers to stop on the way in somewhere (or perhaps outside the range) and handle their guns....

This. Otherwise it would also include ANY loaded firearms ANYWHERE in your vehicle, like moving the the loaded shotgun behind the seat to a more hidden location.

We are using handgun rules. At least that's what the rule book is called. Moving a shotgun around in the car matters little to me. Gunning up for the match means a lot to me.

The rules also address CCW holders in the absence of an unloading station.

Rule 10.5.1 says "firearm." How can YOU make an exception to what kind of firearm? THAT part of the rule is not vague, whereas time and geography is.

Rule 2.5 is the other rule you are mentioning. It says that areas should be provided, and specifies that if they are not, and a competitor chooses to go (immediately) to a match official to get his firearm taken care of, he won't be held liable to a penalty for entering the USPSA range for doing so.

Edited March 18, 2015 by MAC702

[PKT1106]

If you are at a USPSA match to shoot/spectate, you follow USPSA match rules. Gun handling only under direct RO supervision or in a designated safety area. You may not get caught the first time, but eventually an RO will see you racking the slide in your car while holstering up.

If there is no unloading station for your carry, see post #15.

Edited March 18, 2015 by PKT1106

[MAC702]

Post 15 presumably refers to Rule 2.5. Once again, Rule 2.5 does not mandate anything to a competitor. It says that if an unloading area is not provided, and you enter the USPSA range with a loaded pistol for that purpose, you won't be disqualified (interestingly making no mention of reloading after the match). It says that clubs SHOULD provide a loading/unloading station, and outlines the requirements of one if they do. It does not mandate the use of an unloading area, even if provided.

No one is arguing following the rules. The unanswered question is when and where you fall under those rules.

Edited March 18, 2015 by MAC702

[Nik Habicht]

I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it.

I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis?

I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it.

Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms.

One of the issues in other parts of the country, is that when you go to handle a gun in the parking lot, you may very well be sweeping the pits, competitors, set-up and tear down crews, etc.

Understandably folks get downright testy when you show them the muzzle of your gun. That's why locally we require that you do all gun handling at a safe table while on range property -- the lone exception being carry guns. For those, you get to see a match director or RO -- generally this isn't a problem at NJ matches, unless we have a police officer playing.....

[Nik Habicht]

My observations mirror MAC702's, although I only shoot 3 gun. I do have my first my first match at a cold range coming up this month so I've been studying threads like this in an attempt to re program my brain.

Best bet -- check in, and then ask where you may handle. They'll appreciate it, and you'll get the right answer.....

[Nik Habicht]

I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it.

I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis?

I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it.

Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms.

You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.

Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away.

If there's no written rule, who's to say they're doing anything wrong?

Weak

I feel like you saying "Weak" just re-enforces the need for a specific rule. If I am at my home range, and I show up before the match to shoot a few rounds and then decide after the match I want to wander over into another bay and shoot, who are you to tell me I can't? I pay a lot of money a year to be a member, and will shoot when I like to.

Until I have registered for the match, I don't see the rules really being able to apply to me. If I showed up on a Saturday morning and haven't yet registered, but just happen to be open carrying my Limited gun that day (open carry is a legal option in Oregon) I don't think you can tell me I can't register for the match.

Sorry, but I think your "Weak" was weak.

OK - simple solution: You show up to register, we take your money and let you register, and then DQ you for carrying a loaded at a cold range. Simple enough?

When I ran a match at a local club I was also a member of that club. The Board of Directors at that club made it very clear that I had both full authority and full responsibility for anything that occurred in the pits and ancillary areas we used for the match. So no -- as a club member you couldn't come hang out in the pit parking lot with a loaded gun. You'd be asked nicely the first time to unload, if you hadn't registered, or to leave the area -- failure to comply would get you invited to the BOD meeting at minimum or possibly a disorderly conduct charge. That club took safety incredibly seriously and booted more than a handful of members for safety violations -- booted as in no longer a member of the club, no refund of the $600 buy-in to the membership or the $300 annual dues....

Then again, I'm guessing that as long as someone gave you some options, you'd respond nicely to a reasonable request from a match official, no?

[Nik Habicht]

Post 15 presumably refers to Rule 2.5. Once again, Rule 2.5 does not mandate anything to a competitor. It says that if an unloading area is not provided, and you enter the USPSA range with a loaded pistol for that purpose, you won't be disqualified (interestingly making no mention of reloading after the match). It says that clubs SHOULD provide a loading/unloading station, and outlines the requirements of one if they do. It does not mandate the use of an unloading area, even if provided.

No one is arguing following the rules. The unanswered question is when and where you fall under those rules.

You're right Section 2.5 does not mandate a competitor to unload. The competitor is free to keep a loaded gun on their person. Now, if discovered by an RO -- well, Rule 10.5.13 (which is referenced in Rule 2.5.2) mandates disqualification for the competitor.

10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the Range Officer.

So, section 2.5, when read in its entirety, including the rules it refers to, does in fact mandate that a competitor unload a carry gun at an unloading station if provided, or notifies a match official immediately for assistance in safely unloading.

This process gets much easier if you read the rulebook in its entirety.....

[MAC702]

I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it.

I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis?

I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it.

Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms.

One of the issues in other parts of the country, is that when you go to handle a gun in the parking lot, you may very well be sweeping the pits, competitors, set-up and tear down crews, etc.

Understandably folks get downright testy when you show them the muzzle of your gun. That's why locally we require that you do all gun handling at a safe table while on range property -- the lone exception being carry guns. For those, you get to see a match director or RO -- generally this isn't a problem at NJ matches, unless we have a police officer playing.....

I agree with you on potential safety issues for some parking areas. This is a question of uniform rules enforcement. And a DQ from a match official had better come with a clear rule, one which this thread is showing is not clear.

Edited March 18, 2015 by MAC702

[MAC702]

Post 15 presumably refers to Rule 2.5. Once again, Rule 2.5 does not mandate anything to a competitor. It says that if an unloading area is not provided, and you enter the USPSA range with a loaded pistol for that purpose, you won't be disqualified (interestingly making no mention of reloading after the match). It says that clubs SHOULD provide a loading/unloading station, and outlines the requirements of one if they do. It does not mandate the use of an unloading area, even if provided.

No one is arguing following the rules. The unanswered question is when and where you fall under those rules.

You're right Section 2.5 does not mandate a competitor to unload. The competitor is free to keep a loaded gun on their person. Now, if discovered by an RO -- well, Rule 10.5.13 (which is referenced in Rule 2.5.2) mandates disqualification for the competitor.

10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the Range Officer.

So, section 2.5, when read in its entirety, including the rules it refers to, does in fact mandate that a competitor unload a carry gun at an unloading station if provided, or notifies a match official immediately for assistance in safely unloading.

This process gets much easier if you read the rulebook in its entirety...

Once again, We do not have clear jurisdiction for Rule 10.5.13. THAT is the question. The reference to 10.5.13 from 2.5 is if the competitor brings the loaded gun to the USPSA range. We are discussing the parking area and whether or not it applies "before" or "after" a match.

I have the rule book right here in front of me, and am willing to discuss it. Please try not to be condescending.

And no, Rule 2.5 does NOT mandate the use of a loading/unloading area for loading or unloading. It just says that if one is provided, you are no longer allowed to bring a loaded gun into the USPSA range for that purpose. Obviously, if one is provided, you would be smarter to use it, but that's not the issue. Indeed, the context of this rule supports that the loading/unloading station is not itself part of the USPSA range, and therefore neither would be the parking area.

Edited March 18, 2015 by MAC702

[gng4life]

End of a match? My understanding is after the last shot plus 1 hour due to possible arb. That's based on all I can find in the rules. Regardless of tear down, stats, etc. Those things can and are handled outside of "match time".

I know that where I normally shoot Sarge will DQ the heck out of me for gearing down at the car, but I don't see how it's legal to DQ past the hour mark.

If after a match I walk to another bay to shoot and bull crap with the boys for 1 1/2 hours, how can that be a DQ?

That said, I'm not arguing with Sarge. Would you???

The MD is responsible for calling the match done and over. Yes, we normally assume after the last shot that the arb period is ticking away but arb is a separate action and the arb rules state that the arb has to be placed within an hour of the incident. Same with the provisional results, any incident must be filed with the stats officer within one hour of the posting. Nonetheless, the range belongs to the MD as long as they have scheduled the match or running it. Besides that, the rulebook refers to "when the match results are declared final by the Match Director" multiple times meaning the match is not over until then. No time limit is specified so they could declare them final the next day, who knows.

[Sarge]

I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it.

I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis?

I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it.

Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms.

You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.

Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away.

If there's no written rule, who's to say they're doing anything wrong?

Weak

I feel like you saying "Weak" just re-enforces the need for a specific rule. If I am at my home range, and I show up before the match to shoot a few rounds and then decide after the match I want to wander over into another bay and shoot, who are you to tell me I can't? I pay a lot of money a year to be a member, and will shoot when I like to.

Until I have registered for the match, I don't see the rules really being able to apply to me. If I showed up on a Saturday morning and haven't yet registered, but just happen to be open carrying my Limited gun that day (open carry is a legal option in Oregon) I don't think you can tell me I can't register for the match.

Sorry, but I think your "Weak" was weak.

weaker

[Sarge]

That said, I'm not arguing with Sarge. Would you???

I totally would. He's the consummate rules guy, but here he is trying to enforce 'common sense' and admitting he doesn't have a rule. I call 'weak' on that.

Common sense is what liberals say when they don't have a valid reason, as in 'common sense gun laws' (meaning we don't have any data to support this, but it *feels* good).

I'm heading for a ban if I say much more. I think you tried to call me anti gun on another forum. But in this gun free zone I can't defend myself and you know it.

[Sarge]

This is one of the worst arguments I have ever been a part of. Why somebody would try to make an argument promoting unsafe conditions at a match is beyond me. I am a rules guy and pretty fuc%#*&ing proud of it. You come to my match, which is really all I give two shits about, and handle your gun in the trunk of your car you will not shoot the match. I don't care what you do in Oregon or bum Fu%& egypt. If you want to let shooters handle their guns at the sign in table that is fine by me.

As for the whole unloading station BS, should, could would, blah blah blah. If one is not provided you go to a range official and they get you unloaded. That's common sense and a rule!

2.5.2 Where no Unloading/Loading station is provided, a

competitor who arrives at a match in possession of a loaded firearm and

proceeds immediately to a match official for the express purpose of

safely unloading the firearm shall not be subject to disqualification per

the provisions of Rule 10.5.13.

And, I stand by my opinion that since the rules governing USPSA handgun matches are indeed called

USPSA Handgun Competition

Rules

February 2014

Where the rule book says firearm, handgun, or gun, I take that to mean handgun.

Edit to add: But if you like I can consider firearm to be a blanket term and yes then I would DQ you for touching your shotgun in your car.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Sarge

[Sarge]

Nobody has really said much about simply asking the MD when/where you can handle your gun. i.e. when is the match over? Is it ok if we use the pit for practice now? etc...

See, it is possible to follow the rules and still use common sense.

[MAC702]

For being f-ing proud to be a rules guy, you have continually provided your opinion as if it were a binding rule. I've never disagreed with your claims of common sense. We have some people here who seem proud to DQ people when a rule doesn't clearly call for it, instead of using it as a teaching or training moment instead.

I'm reading Rule 2.5 right now. It does not mandate the use of a loading/unloading station, even if one is provided, period. It does however, clearly state that such a station, if provided, would be outside the "portion of the range allocated to the USPSA match," therefore the parking area can't be inside that portion of said range, for the purposes of USPSA rules. Its reference to Rule 10.5.13 would apply only when a competitor entered that portion of the range with his loaded firearm, if the station had been provided. It therefore can't apply before the competitor enters that portion of the range.

I can definitely see how handling a firearm at the car can be in violation of a club rule, and penalized in accordance with the bylaws of the club, but I do NOT see how a competitor can be DQ'd from a USPSA match for it, a match that he has already completed prior to going to his car and violating the club rules.

No one can argue your opinion about what you say is safe. It's a valid opinion. But we are discussing the rules. You can have rules for your private club, too, of course, but you can't enforce them as if they are USPSA rules if they aren't.

Edited March 18, 2015 by MAC702

[motosapiens]

I am a rules guy and pretty fuc%#*&ing proud of it.t the sign in table that is fine by me.

So go by the actual rules that are printed in the rulebook, and stop making up your own rules and being proud of enforcing those non-existent tribal rules.

Nobody has really said much about simply asking the MD when/where you can handle your gun. i.e. when is the match over? Is it ok if we use the pit for practice now? etc..

Nik brought that up and it was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's a good plan. When in doubt, ask.

Another good plan, remember rule #1. Don't lie in wait for newbies and try to figure out ways to dq them. Not saying you do that, but lack of clarity regarding what part of the range is considered part of the USPSA match is not conducive to a good time or to safety. Many ranges in the west are big enough that there is plenty of other stuff outside the handful of bays used for a USPSA match. If you want to consider the parking lot part of your match venue, make sure it's clear to everyone.

[Sarge]

For being f-ing proud to be a rules guy, you have continually provided your opinion as if it were a binding rule. I've never disagreed with your claims of common sense. We have some people here who seem proud to DQ people when a rule doesn't clearly call for it, instead of using it as a teaching or training moment instead.

I'm reading Rule 2.5 right now. It does not mandate the use of a loading/unloading station, even if one is provided, period. It does however, clearly state that such a station, if provided, would be outside the area allocated to the USPSA match, therefore the parking area can't be "inside the area allocated to the match."

No one can argue your opinion about what you say is safe. It's a valid opinion. But we are discussing the rules. You can have rules for your private club, too, of course, but you can't enforce them as if they are USPSA rules if they aren't.

Why do you refuse to read the rule right after the one you are so hung up on? Here it is again:

2.5.2 Where no Unloading/Loading station is provided, a

competitor who arrives at a match in possession of a loaded firearm and

proceeds immediately to a match official for the express purpose of

safely unloading the firearm shall not be subject to disqualification per

the provisions of Rule 10.5.13

Reading this rule makes it clear to me that if the competitor does not proceed immediately to a match official to get unloaded he would be subject to DQ under 10.5.13 which says: 10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the

Range Officer.

[Sarge]

I am a rules guy and pretty fuc%#*&ing proud of it.t the sign in table that is fine by me.

So go by the actual rules that are printed in the rulebook, and stop making up your own rules and being proud of enforcing those non-existent tribal rules.

Nobody has really said much about simply asking the MD when/where you can handle your gun. i.e. when is the match over? Is it ok if we use the pit for practice now? etc..

Nik brought that up and it was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's a good plan. When in doubt, ask.

Another good plan, remember rule #1. Don't lie in wait for newbies and try to figure out ways to dq them. Not saying you do that, but lack of clarity regarding what part of the range is considered part of the USPSA match is not conducive to a good time or to safety. Many ranges in the west are big enough that there is plenty of other stuff outside the handful of bays used for a USPSA match. If you want to consider the parking lot part of your match venue, make sure it's clear to everyone.

I didn't say it was not brought up. Said it was not brought up much. So one person mentioned it in 50 posts.