Dry Fire Bill Drill?

[Smitty79]

I am doing these about twice a week as part of my dry fire routine. I am struggling to believe that this particular drill is worth the time. In live fire, the Bill drill is great for learning recoil control and seeing the sights. In dry fire, I feel that anything more than one pull after my initial DA pull isn't doing anything for me. I'd be better off spending the time doing more Blakes. The Blake gets all of the skills a Bill does, and gets transitions as a bonus.

I shoot a CZ and I'm focusing on classifier skills to make B this year.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I would agree with you, six " dry" trigger pulls seems kinda worthless.

Am trying to remember what Andersons book says on this....

[Roons]

Dry fire Bill Drills will tell you if your are hammering on the trigger and jerking the front sight around after the 1st shot. You can refine how well you run the gun at speed with working on developing a fast trigger with minimal sight movement.

[thermobollocks]

Dry fire Bill Drills will tell you if your are hammering on the trigger and jerking the front sight around after the 1st shot. You can refine how well you run the gun at speed with working on developing a fast trigger with minimal sight movement.

This is why I burned pretty solid on them for revo.

[ummm]

I am struggling to believe that this particular drill is worth the time.

An option might be to quit struggling with belief and get into facts.

If you really wanted to know the truth, you could have measured your rate of progress in the Bill Drill before you started doing these dry fire drills twice a week. Then, after building up a decent amount of data over time, you would change your training to include 2x week dry fire Bill Drills, and see if the rate of improvement in your progress in the Bill Drill actually changed.

[motosapiens]

I wouldn't overdo that particular drill. I only do it once every week or two. I try to see just how fast I can draw, acquire a sight picture and pull the trigger with minimal sight movement. At that speed you're pretty much slapping the trigger as fast as you can, so i think it's totally unimportant that you don't get the actual click when the hammer drops.

[Smitty79]

I am struggling to believe that this particular drill is worth the time.

An option might be to quit struggling with belief and get into facts.

If you really wanted to know the truth, you could have measured your rate of progress in the Bill Drill before you started doing these dry fire drills twice a week. Then, after building up a decent amount of data over time, you would change your training to include 2x week dry fire Bill Drills, and see if the rate of improvement in your progress in the Bill Drill actually changed.

I am tracking my times doing these bill drills. My average Bill drill is almost flat for the last 2 months. My average 4A's and draw 2 are up 20% in hit factor. My Blake has also gotten much better. El Prez is pretty inconsistent. While I feel like I'm doing better, I had a Mike last weekend so my hit factor sucked.

[TDA]

May be a silly question, but how do you time dry fire such as draws and Bill Drills?

Thanks!

[TDA]

May be a silly question, but how do you time dry fire such as draws and Bill Drills?

Thanks!

[TonytheTiger]

You can set a par time on most shot timers. It'll beep to start and beep when times up. All you gotta do is accomplish your goal between the beeps.

[Ben Stoeger]

I would agree with you, six " dry" trigger pulls seems kinda worthless.

It is a good way to sort out your hands. You need to grip the gun really hard to hold it in place and learn to pull the trigger fast but relatively straight at the same time. Plenty of people have a hard time running the trigger fast because their trigger finger doesn't move all that independently of their strong hand. If you can't shoot .20 splits on close range targets on the reg then you may want to try doing dry fire bill drills.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I would agree with you, six " dry" trigger pulls seems kinda worthless.

It is a good way to sort out your hands. You need to grip the gun really hard to hold it in place and learn to pull the trigger fast but relatively straight at the same time. Plenty of people have a hard time running the trigger fast because their trigger finger doesn't move all that independently of their strong hand. If you can't shoot .20 splits on close range targets on the reg then you may want to try doing dry fire bill drills.

Outstanding.

My thought was that the real significance in the bill drill was timing with recoil. In my dry fire routines I got to the point where I felt I was kidding myself on multiple " shots" on the same target. Obviously not knowing my dry fire splits, and not having to see / confirm sight alignment made me feel like, well it was a waste of time or even harmful.

What really supported this opinion was when I took a set of dry fire drills to live fire... ones like el prez or four aces my dry fire pars correlated pretty well to live fire performance. With bill drill or anything with a lot of stacked shots times are totally messed up.

If I follow you correctly I hear you saying that dry fire training just trigger speed has value independent of recoil timing?

Right on, looking forward to training with you here in idaho this spring.

Smitty

[thermobollocks]

I treat dry bills as an exercise for the eyes 60% and for the hands 40%. Can I track the movement of the sight, however minute, during six double action trigger presses?

A Bill is going to test followups, and an El Pres is going to test followups and transitions. Those transitions are going to make up more of your stage time than recoil makes up in a Bill, so I bet that's why your dry and live times are closer. Further, though no dry fire exercise is going to teach you how your gun recoils, but one thing you can get from your dry fire is conscious gripping of the gun in the way that you would during live fire, and what that does to your trigger control.

[motosapiens]

I would agree with you, six " dry" trigger pulls seems kinda worthless.

It is a good way to sort out your hands. You need to grip the gun really hard to hold it in place and learn to pull the trigger fast but relatively straight at the same time. Plenty of people have a hard time running the trigger fast because their trigger finger doesn't move all that independently of their strong hand. If you can't shoot .20 splits on close range targets on the reg then you may want to try doing dry fire bill drills.

Outstanding.

My thought was that the real significance in the bill drill was timing with recoil. In my dry fire routines I got to the point where I felt I was kidding myself on multiple " shots" on the same target. Obviously not knowing my dry fire splits, and not having to see / confirm sight alignment made me feel like, well it was a waste of time or even harmful.

What really supported this opinion was when I took a set of dry fire drills to live fire... ones like el prez or four aces my dry fire pars correlated pretty well to live fire performance. With bill drill or anything with a lot of stacked shots times are totally messed up.

If I follow you correctly I hear you saying that dry fire training just trigger speed has value independent of recoil timing?

Right on, looking forward to training with you here in idaho this spring.

Smitty

yo erik, for me, one of the keys to starting to get better was to really be looking at the front sight for follow-up shots, not just seeing the first one and hammering the trigger as fast as possible.

I would think at 7 yards with your fancy gun and thumbrest, you would be able to run the trigger pretty close to the same speed in live-fire as in dry-fire.

Having said all that, pretty much the only time I do dry-fire billdrills is as part of my white-wall fundamentals routine.