Draw??? why is hands at side slow?

[snokid]

ok tonight at the range I was getting fustrated I'm trying to do a double bill drill under 5.00, I keep hitting low 5's 5.16 was my best so far. well I know where the problem is but I'm having trouble fixing it. my draw stinks...hands at my side I get 1.30 1st shots.  so I tried the hands on the head thing and my first shot dropped to 1.14 first try 1.08 my second try...I was out of ammo...

knowing that I'm trying to figure out how to change what I'm doing with my hands at my side. I have tried letting my hands slightly hang back, straight down, it doesn't seem to matter. I think that the problem lies in that I have to change motion of my hands...up, down, and back up again. does that make sense?

I should be looking for time in my reloads they are sucking right now I haven't had enough time to practice them lately.

but I know that I should be able to do a 1.00 draw that alone would get me to the 5.00 goal I have for myself.

any suggestions?

thanks Bob

[tightloop]

Hands up is faster 'cause you can slap down on the pistol and grip it at the same time, hands down you have to feel your way up the side of the holster till you  can index the pistol and make yourdraw.

[Shooter Grrl]

Matt Burkett gave me the BEST advice ever on draws from hands at sides... I'll try to explain it as best I can...

He said to make sure that you're taking the gun out the same way as you're putting it in - so break down backwards.  You should see only 2 movements - to the holster and then hands down.  Now work on drawing the same way!

I think he has these tips on his website.   Start there

[Ron Ankeny]

I spent two years trying to get a hands at sides draw that is as fast as the surrender position. I don't scoop, and I for sure don't run my fingers up the length of the holster. I draw very similar to how Matt demonstrates his draw in his manual. The key is to "pop" that puppy out of the holster. I think most folks do a better job of popping the pistol out if they are changing directions of movement like they do from surrender. With practice, you should see very little difference between surrender and hands at side. If anything, hands at side might even be a tad faster.

Depending on distance, what you are trying to hit, and gear, a 1.30 second draw might not be all that bad. When you shoot your double Bill Drill are you getting all A zone hits? If I go too fast on the draw (like .80 to .90) I mess up the first shot and then I need to make adjustments to get things going. Don't let your shooting fundamentals erode while you are in search of that magical quick draw.

[38supPat]

All my draws run about the same speed. Hands up, hands down, hands in front, or from a table.

If your hands down draw is slow, theres a good chance you are fighting yourself. Check the tension in your arms right before the buzzer goes. If your muscles are tight, particularily your forearms, you are in effect using your extention muscles to hold your arm out. Before you can move your hand to the gun, these muscles will have to let go first (time loss) or they will fight your contraction muscles all the way to the gun (big time loss)

Be sure your arm is fully relaxed before you get the Are  You Ready command.

Move your hand quickly to the gun, pause long enough to ensure a good grip (doesn't really take very long) then pull the gun quicly but smoothly out of the holster.

http://www.ipsc-ont.org/pat_h2.htm

This is an article I wrote on the draw

Good luck

Pat

[Ron Ankeny]

I was watching Ron Avery demo his hands at side draw and he is pretty quick. I noticed that right before the buzzer he would be wiggling his fingers ever so slightly, almost like a controlled tremor. I asked him about the movement and he told me that he did it in preparation for the draw instead of letting his hands drop and just hang there. It works for him. Might be worth a try.

[Steve Anderson]

If you watch Burkett's vids, you'll see a little "pop" in the hands as the draw commences. I played with that in dry fire and found that it gave a better reaction time. Hard to describe, but it just means moving the hands as the arms are moving. Just pop the gun out.

SA

[snokid]

I keep reading about "popping the gun out of the holster"

I'm going to try that for the next week or so.

I think I know what Matt means by it. When I draw I was going for the smooth is fast thing, I think I need to go full out then slow down as the gun nears the target. Kind of like how BE writes the draw starts fast then it's a slowing down thing.

well I got a couple hundered rounds packed I'm off to the range. maybe my "bat" friend will be there again tonight. He is quite the accuracy tester...LOL...them little buggers are a bear to hit....

sno

[DBChaffin]

Funny, my hands at sides draws are faster than from surrender.  We do them more here so that's a good thing.  I just figured it was because the hand starts so much closer to the gun at hands at sides...   I am going to "reverse engineer" this thread to see if I can help my surrender draw.  

[shred]

DB, same here.. I run about 0.1 faster on hands at sides-- I figure it's because my hands are that much closer to the gun.  I use the Burkett-style draw.

Everybody else, pay careful attention to your shoulders-- you may be 'sagging' them more on hands at sides and not from surrender.  Dry-fire draw (slowly) in a mirror at various angles.

[Loves2Shoot]

Lots of ways to draw but I 'll mention this "trick" told to me by a National Champion cowboy action shooter since I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Preload the muscles need to make the motion you want to make on the draw on the standby command. For me hands at side it is flexing my triceps and fingers a bit.

Like a track runner going out of the blocks, it takes time to flex, if you are already flexed you have less to do, thus a faster draw. The big key is not to flex everything, only the specific muscles need to get you hands on the pistol.

[Ron Ankeny]

Loves2Shoot:

Wow, that suprises me. The prevailing thought now a days seems to be just the opposite, relax as much as possible. Relaxed muscles are supposed to react quicker than tense muscles.

[spook]

L2s and Ron, yeah, I've noticed the same. When I LAMR and before SR, I snap at the gun (and grip it) about 5 times. This not only makes my draw smoother, but also faster (as fast is smooth, this makes sense, right?).

[Steve Anderson]

I think I know what loves2shoot is referring to...

If we reverse engineer the draw, right after you put the gin IN the holster, your arms and shoulders will be in a different place than when you are at hands at sides. I like to hold my arms and shoulders there and just move tha hands down. Notice where your shoulders are when you touch your two outside belt loops at the same time? That's the place I mean. You can be hands at sides with that "set" and save a little time. I'm still relaxed in the muscles, just in a different place.

(BTW, I got down to .73 at 7 yards on thursday, hands at sides)

SA

[Loves2Shoot]

I don't know about the prevailing wisdom, but on a predictable motion, being and being an ex-sprinter, I don't know of anyone who started in the blocks with relaxed muscles, you preload them.

A preload is not "tense." It is more like a calm tension, like when you try to sneak up on a fly and slap it.

I only trust the timer, and for me it is faster and more consistant.

Steve,

Yep, the less you have to move, the less time it seems to take.

(Edited by Loves2Shoot at 12:58 pm on Dec. 20, 2002)