alma Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have been doing some stippling and other work on SIG SAUER P320s and was wondering if there was a consensus about any limitations to where stippling can be performed on the P320 while still remaining SSP legal. According to the rulebook (8.2.1.3.16, 8.2.1.49) stippling and texturing may be performed on readily replaceable parts of the grip frame such as replaceable back straps and replaceable grip panels, and no checkering or stippling on non-readily replaceable parts of the grip frame. The SIG P320 was designed with three different sizes of grip frame modules (S/M/L) for each P320/P250 frame size. The grip frame modules themselves cost only about $40 to replace, are very easy and quick to replace and are not serialized since the Fire Control Unit that sits inside the grip frame module is the part that sports the actual serial number. In my mind then the entire grip frame module fits the IDPA definition of "readily replaceable" and stippling can legally be done across any surface of the grip frame module. What do all of you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afoulk Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I say go for it. I think you've found some valid "game room". However... 1.3.2.3 Says a match official that claims to be applying common sense and founding concepts could validly decide otherwise. I really do expect the rule to change in the next update, so this pursuit may be a waste of your genius. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Of the grip frame module there is the "grip" and there is the "frame". But without the rule book being more specific you only have good judgement to guide you. Personally, I'd only stipple where I'd be legal putting grip tape to avoid having to argue with someone who has a different opinion of "grip" and "intent of the rule". Ugh... too much subjectiveness in too many aspects of idpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Are there location restrictions for grip tape in IDPA? I am familiar with coloring within the lines for USPSA but didn't know the IDPA equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm afraid you will put your pistol in ESP, that's my 2 cents. I'm using my phone right now so it would be to difficult to copy and paste the rules. But for the most part in SSP it says you can stipple any readily replaceable part like a backstrap on an M&P. Then in the exclusions section is specifically mention parts like a magazine release can't be stippled. I guess yours and my definition of readily replaceable part are different from IDPA HQ. My (and maybe yours) personal definition if I can have that part out and replaced in a safe area in under 5 minutes, it's a readily replaceable part. I would like to see you push this issue and get a ruling. Just be prepared to buy another frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I already have five grip frame modules for this gun. I could drop another one on in about 20 seconds. Again, the serial number isn't on plastic frame similar to the Glocks and M&Ps and it's designed to be quickly, easily, and cost effectively replaced. I can't see how even HQ wouldn't admit that it clearly fits the definition. Edited January 4, 2015 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I'm with you Alma. I don't see a difference between an M&P backstraap and p320 frame. However, the rules say "grip frame" so ultimately we need a ruling from Robert Ray. Edited January 4, 2015 by blind bat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I already have five grip frame modules for this gun. I could drop another one on in about 20 seconds. Again, the serial number isn't on plastic frame similar to the Glocks and M&Ps and it's designed to be quickly, easily, and cost effectively replaced. I can't see how even HQ wouldn't admit that it clearly fits the definition. I agree with you, it's an awesome idea. I think you should push for a ruling though. I would hate for you to practice all year in SSP and say get to the IDPA nationals and get bumped to ESP, or be forced to swap to a non-stippled frame you haven't been practicing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm with you Alma. I don't see a difference between an M&P backstraap and p320 frame. However, the rules say "grip frame" so ultimately we need a ruling from Robert Ray. The big difference is the M&P frame has rails, a serial number, is legally a firearm, and costs quite a bit more than $40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaGlockGuy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 A common Glock online store sells a replacement backstrap kit for the Gen 4 Glocks for about $25 + shipping. You can pick these P320/P250 frames up for about $40 + shipping. I can actually change the frame on my P320 faster than I can install a large beavertail backstrap on a Glock (due to how you have to bang that stupid pin in there!) One is a small plastic part, and the other is a larger plastic part. I think it's correct that they are just "Parts" though, and not the "Gun", ie: serialized part. I'm sure this will get ruled, appealed and re-ruled again in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona955i Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 That's an interesting question. I think I know which way it will go, but I'd like to see the official ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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