10ring Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I still have trouble from time to time with my support hand sliding forward while using a balanced modern isoceles hold. Should the palm of my support hand be as far back as the main spring housing? Or should it just be gripping the grip panel? I find if it does slip forward it seems to lock in place when the palm of the support hand is hitting up against the fingers of the shooting hand. I've tried the full contact approach mentioned in books and in various discussion threads but this doesn't seem to be doing it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 It should be on the grip panel. Get THE BOOK or Matt's books and video's they will show you everything you need to know in less time than I can explain it to you. If it feels wierd at first, practice and it will be second nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 10ring, are you talking about group shooting, or hosing? The subject has cropped up from time to time with several forum members reporting that their weak hand slips during group shooting. I regularly experience this when I'm shooting 50yd groups but never have I noticed it happen during a stage, or speed orientated practice. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Chris, I've got THE BOOK, Matt's book, Ron Avery's first video and Matt's video set. They have taught me A LOT and have set me on a course to getting better. However, this little thing still happens from time to time. Phil, good point. Now that you mention it, it seems like I notice this when I'm shooting slow. Not necessarily group shooting. I've been spending a lot of time trying to break the blinking and flinching habit. I've come a long way but have a ways to go yet. During my journey I picked up a .22 conversion unit and can see/feel how things are suppose to come together. Watching the front sight, calling my shot, having the sights come right back to where they were, maintaining a neutral grip. But when I step up to a .45, the results aren't as consistent. Most of my hosing time has been on IDPA type of COF's and I don't recall sensing a problem here. I've only just started trying IPSC type matches and have only shot one to this point. I think I sensed my grip slipping to the point of my support hand palm sliding up to my firing hand fingers and stopping at this point. Thanks for the tips guys. I sure appreciate it. Maybe I'm worrying about this little detail more than I should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 10ring. What kind of gun are you shooting? When I shoot my HK.45 I find that I have to get a piece of the rear grip with my left hand, with my STI .40 I don't. Another thing that has worked for me is to use your left hand fingers as a hinge and press your left heel into the side grip panel (which also serves to push the gun into the right hand when I don't quite get that perfect right hand grip from the holster). I had the same left hand grip slipping problem until I though of the left hand as a sort-of hinge and press thing if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I have had a similar problem, where the palm of my weak hand will come slightly off the gun during recoil. I have solved it by squeezing my fingers closed a bit more firmly on the weak hand. Sometimes my palm still comes off if I relax too much. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I don't quite get what you are saying but it sound like you might be holding your gun in your strong hand too much. The weak hand "holds" the gun, the strong hand pulls the trigger. You might need to rotate your right hand to the right more in your grip to allow more room for your weak hand to get a good grip. You can try this test: 1. Grip your gun like you normally do. 2. Remove your strong hand and place your left hand directly on the frame the way you would with the right hand in place. 3. DO NOT grip the gun with the right hand, but only use the right finger to activate the trigger. If you can't shoot like that you probably don't have the correct grip. 12 year olds can do this with full power 45's with a proper grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'm obviously doing something wrong with this test as I cannot activate the grip safety when I remove my strong hand to allow releasing the trigger. What am I missing here? For me, the palm of the support hand is centered on the fingernails of the strong hand. The heel of the hand (portion just in front of the wrist) is what contacts the grip panel. Strong thumb is on the safety, and the support thumb just under, both pointing with the barrel. I'm generally trying to maximize the amount of contact with the gun. This is not fully in line with modern thinking as I still have my support index finger on the trigger guard. I've never gotten comfortable with the wrist rotated to have the support fingers all under the trigger guard. Guy (Edited by Guy Neill at 9:39 pm on Feb. 10, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Oh, you haven't deactivated your grip safety yet. either tape it down, ruberband, whatever and then try it, or put just enough presure with your right hand on the grip safety to deactivate it. I can't shoot a 1911 with a good grip and activate the safety. If you don't "get comforatble" with the wrist fully rotated you will very much so limit yourself. It is simple physics. It feels weird at 1st, but one you get it it works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Just a little update for those who might care. I reviewed the shooting videos and books I have and noticed one picture in be's book which was taken from below; i.e. the base of the frame and hands. This seemed to indicate that the pad at the base of the thumb should be at the back of the grip panel, and maybe on the edge of the mainspring housing. I practiced this with some dry fire time and then gave it a try at the range. This seems to have cured my troubles! Thanks for all the tips! Another issue I've been working on over the last several months is to overcome a intermittant flinch and to work on keeping my eyes open when the gun fires. I've done a lot of dry fire practice and .22 conversion practice to help work through this. Today I was able to go out and keep my eyes open about 90% of the time. I felt so relaxed that I was actually able to feel my body soak up the recoil. That was the first time I've ever experienced that sensation. Now if I can keep this up I can move on to building up some of the other much needed skills. Making progress is encourageing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 10ring, Cool, it is all about learning right. BE aware and it will all come with time and experiencing your shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 10ring, Cool, sounds like you're getting it. For me, my weak hand is far enough to the rear (of the left side of the grip) and my strong hand is far enough around the rear, so that the upper part of the base of my strong hand thumb is pressed firmly against the lower part of my week hand thumb. These contact areas meet just at the left edge of the grip safety/mainspring housing. (You may have to read that again.) Man, I feel like a "technical manual writer." be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 Thanks for the encouragement guys! Brian, I've been amazed at your ability to explain things with words; and your ability to break things down to their simplest terms. What portions of your background can you attribute to being able to do this? I'll take another look at what I'm ending up with at this time and see if it is similar to what you described above. Thanks again for this wealth of information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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