Start Position for Mag Fed Shotguns

[Flatland Shooter]

How are RO's and match directors handling this?

When abandoning a mag fed shotgun in a barrel, its simple. Drop the mag and place gun safely into the barrel.

But on stages where the start position has the loaded shotgun in a barrel or other position where its physically impossible to place the shotgun, how should this be handled?

Last spring, at a major 3 gun match, we had a squad member with a MKA 1919 and a 23rd mag. Several stages had the shotgun start loaded and in barrels. None of the barrels were staked down. On one stage the RO required the gun be placed in the barrel muzzle down. But with that long magazine, less than half the gun was in the barrel and there was a concern that the barrel would quickly tip over.

On that stage the RO would not consider any options and it was a "take it or leave it".

On a second stage, another RO allowed the shooter to place the shotgun over the top of the barrel with the magazine sticking into the barrel and the muzzle pointed downrange.

A third stage had the barrel so close to a barricade that the shotgun could not be placed on top of the barrel with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

So how could/should the RO handle such a situation?

And this may not be limited to mag fed shotguns. Jessie T has posted pictures of one of his new creations. Its a shotgun with a 24" barrel and a magazine tube that looks like it extends 18" past the muzzle. Bet a top heavy gun like that will not do well in an unstaked blue barrel.

Bill

Edited November 19, 2014 by Flatland Shooter

[MarkCO]

Barrels should be secured, end of story. We use 55 gallon drums held in place with rebar in the ground.

[Flatland Shooter]

At matches I work, that is how I handle it. A little rebar and a few plastic ties go a long way to assure a barrel stays put.

But not all ranges do that.

Bill

[mike cyrwus]

Mark, You have any photos of how you stake your barrels?

[toothandnail]

Staked barrels , I shoot an MKA with a 23 rnd mag (obviously ) haven't been to a match where I had a problem, but

Flat is correct on both, extra long tubes, extra long mags , and poor/no planning by MD /RD would cause problems.

We use a barrel cut in half, angled, on a frame staked in the ground, with a 6"x4' wide plywood extension.

We've had several comments, "That's the best staging barrel I've seen".

[mike cyrwus]

6" or 6'?

[MarkCO]

Mike, here is a stage run of Patrick Kelley at one of our matches, which shows 2 barrels.

We use 4' long re-bar (2 per barrel) with a wood block that had a channel to grip the rebar. That is screwed into from inside the barrel. We had a 260 pound guy run into one at full tilt (accidentally)...he flipped over the barrel and the barrel stayed secured.

[mike cyrwus]

great idea, securing it from the top; thats where its going to tip.

We have rocky soil though. How thick is your rebar, and about how much is underground, 10"-ish?

[MarkCO]

1/2" rebar, driven about 12 to 16 inches deep. Easy to do, undo, and if needed, repair.

[toothandnail]

Here's a pic of ours. they plywood is weathered and needing replacement of next year.

All our staging barrels are Half , dump are full, staked in

[MarkCO]

Few nice corners there I could cut myself on.

[toothandnail]

Should you be involved in such a dangerous sport ?

Don't know how may hundreds of shooters have had no problems. . . . but

there's always 1 .

[MarkCO]

I take the position as a MD/RM that I don't want my props or support equipment to be something the shooters have to think about. If the shoooter has to think about their gun coming out of a dump bucket, or getting cut, then there is room for improvement.

[Doug H.]

I second that barrels need to be staked, we also use rebar on opposite sides and then zip-tie the rebar to the barrel. I use a Saiga with 20 round mag and normally it is staged muzzle down in the barrel pointing away from the shooter with the mag sticking up.

Doug

Edited November 19, 2014 by Doug H.

[toothandnail]

We also have props a guy could bump his knee on, and sometimes maybe even . . . . . . their head.

BTW, first thing I saw on the video . . . poorly staked fault lines , to each their own.

[MarkCO]

Doug and Scott are who I learned the re-bar idea from, so thanks guys.

[mike cyrwus]

tooth, that thing looks like a 19th century implement of torture. lol. and Im not just saying that because Mark did already.

[toothandnail]

tooth, that thing looks like a 19th century implement of torture. lol. and Im not just saying that because Mark did already.

Up here, we generally grab the gun and go, not anybody trying to "make love " to the barrels YET,

now you guys are getting me worried

Must be the "Guard Rail Syndrome" Mark ought to be familiar with that.

Edited November 20, 2014 by toothandnail

[MarkCO]

Matt, that is great you find it so amusing, but most shooters want to shoot, not play obstacle course. As a person who has yet to run their major match, maybe some lessons learned from people who have been doing this for years, at some of the biggest matches in the country, might be a better path for you than personal attacks. Guys like Doug have RO'd and run more matches than you have likely attended. The whole point of forums and discussions is supposed to be educational and information sharing.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MarkCO

[LoganbillJ]

Not really sure why this would be an issue. Any barrel, dump or staging should be staked down. One, for safety reasons. Two, to ensure the barrels are in the same spot for each and every shooter. I can see maybe a first time local match not having staked barrels but a Major? Seems a bit odd and thrown together.

As for the attacks, guys grow up. We are adults here. If you want to have a pissing match do it in a PM.

ETA: Now that I think about it anything on the COF should be staked down to ensure nothing is moved, ever. Keep it fair!

Edited November 20, 2014 by LoganbillJ

[toothandnail]

Didn't intend to offend anybody, just having some internet banter, I figured it went both ways, Sorry, I won't respond to any more of your posts.

Not sure where the 'personal attack' comes from ? ?

Maybe the guard rail syndrome ? ? ?

That is where roads with dangerous curves/ drop-offs WITH guard rails have more accidents than a similar road without