acpie360 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I posted this question on the S&W forum but didn't get enough replies. The cylinder/extractor in question is from my 627-5 and since it is the only S&W revolver I have, I really don't have anything to compare with. I am hoping you guys can tell me if this amount of play on the extractor's rotational movement is normal for a 627. Here is the video I uploaded to YouTube By the way, the gun is brand new, completely stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 That's more than we would like to see, but it is usually less with cartridges in the chambers. Try it that way and see if it's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Donno if you're gonna like this but FWIW I have 0, yes zero, play on my 627 and zero on my 625. Round count on both is under 5K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 That is way too much play. Cartridges in the cylinder will restrict it some, but I suspect if you check wobble in lockup with brass in tubes, it will be excessive. I would also check double action and single action carry up with brass in tubes, I suspect it will fail. Old design had the small pins to lock the extractor into the cylinder, but the new (cheap) design does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) I posted this question on the S&W forum but didn't get enough replies. The cylinder/extractor in question is from my 627-5 and since it is the only S&W revolver I have, I really don't have anything to compare with. I am hoping you guys can tell me if this amount of play on the extractor's rotational movement is normal for a 627. Here is the video I uploaded to YouTube By the way, the gun is brand new, completely stock. Another thing: hard to see exactly with resolution of screen image,but it looks to my eyes like the ends of the extractor ratchets have been peened by somebody probably to try to improve a carry up failure or attempt to "tighten up" the wobble caused by the loose extractor. That thing looks like it has been mugged by a gun butcher from what the screen image shows. Kind of bizarre that a NEW gun would have that kind of damage, but nothing coming out of the SW PC shop can shock me anymore after the experience I had when I bought a new 627. Edited September 18, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 You might be able to tighten it up some by peening the ends of the star that are at 3 o'clock, 5, 8, and 9 o'clock. About the only other thing you could do is add some pins like the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) You might be able to tighten it up some by peening the ends of the star that are at 3 o'clock, 5, 8, and 9 o'clock. About the only other thing you could do is add some pins like the old ones. Looks like they have already been peened. Something trashed the ends. Edited September 18, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Those are the ratchets. I'm talking about the ends of the star that are halfway around the cases where it contacts the cylinder. If you look closely wou will see where the ends of 2 go one way and the ends of 2 adjacent ones go the other way. If you move those out a little to close the gaps it may stabilize the rotation of the extractor in the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hey, guys, thanks for the replies. This is a brand new gun and since you guys all seem to agree that the play is abit too much, I'll contact S&W and see what they have to say. Do you guys think this rotational movement on the extractor could interfere a reload? I mean if I drop in an 8-shot moon clip, it is conceivable that one of the rounds could get caught up on the chamber edge once the extractor is off center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 It could, I'd be more concerned with it messing with the guns timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Right - the timing is the real issue here. Reloads will probably go OK. Timing is essential to accuracy and not leading the barrel and longevity of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hey, guys, I got the reply back from S&W regarding this issue, here is what the email says: Dear Customer, We would like to thank you for your e-mail and contacting Smith & Wesson / Thompson Center. We reviewed your video. A slight bit of movement in the extractor is normal and this allows the smooth extraction of shells. There is a "D" cut in the cylinder and the extractor has a flat spot on the shaft. There are plus and minus tolerances at play here so a little play is normal. It becomes a problem when the extractor arms cross over into the adjacent charge hole and get stuck there after extracting spent shells. This condition would be called, "Extractor Twist". For this condition, we would need the gun in for repair. Thank You for choosing Smith & Wesson / Thompson Center products. Have a great day. . If further assistance is required please reply accordingly. Sincerely, Steve So looks like I have to live with it or I'll have to find a good revolver smith myself. Right now the gun seems to shoot just find, perhaps more mileage might be needed to determine if this is a real problem. Thanks again to all you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Well, the reply does not surprise me. As I said above in first post, I would immediately check carry up on gun before firing. 1) Fill cylinder with FIRED brass. 2) use the tip of left index finger to apply a very SLIGHT drag on the face of the cylinder as it turns. 3) Pull trigger normally in DA mode VERY slowly and watch to see if the cylinder stop bolt directly under the cylinder pops up and locks the cylinder before the hammer falls. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, if a gun is failing this (especially a new gun) it needs to be fixed. I would also repeat the carry up test for single action operation. Repeat exactly as above but watch as you thumb cock the hammer as slowly as possible to verify that the cylinder stop locks fully into the cylinder before the hammer cocks fully. If this is not happening, the gun needs to be fixed. If it passes, it is probably good to shoot as is. Edited September 19, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 bountyhunter: I'll check that out. I didn't quite understand what "carry up" meant in your first post. Thanks. Perhaps another newbie question to all of you - Is it important to have the cylinder charge holes chamferred to facilitate a reload since I already have quite a mount of chamfer on the extractor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Perhaps another newbie question to all of you - Is it important to have the cylinder charge holes chamferred to facilitate a reload since I already have quite a mount of chamfer on the extractor?The taper of the nose of the bullet is all I need. If the gun is used for speed shooting and fast reloads are critical, maybe chamfer (?) I have seen some people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 To me, the chambers are chamfered enough as they come from the factory. They are chamfered on the inside and outside with the middle part left to extract individual cases. You need round nose bullets to reload fast anyway, so I don't feel the need for more on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 ...There is a "D" cut in the cylinder and the extractor has a flat spot on the shaft. There are plus and minus tolerances at play here so a little play is normal... After I took the cylinder/extractor assembly apart, I finally understood what the S&W technician told me: [ It seems the amount of play is unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 2 thoughts, First it's not that hard to set up a new extractor star, and that's what it looks like it might need. Or the "D" is wallowed and a new star won't help. You could always do a slight bit of muscle work and discover you have "Extractor Twist" and send it back to Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 ... You could always do a slight bit of muscle work and discover you have "Extractor Twist" and send it back to Smith. Things have to get worse in order to get better. Seriously, on your first thought, I tried to look online to see if anyone sells a new extractor star but so far all I found is for the 6-shot model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) ...There is a "D" cut in the cylinder and the extractor has a flat spot on the shaft. There are plus and minus tolerances at play here so a little play is normal... After I took the cylinder/extractor assembly apart, I finally understood what the S&W technician told me: It seems the amount of play is unavoidable. No, it's not unavoidable and it's not normal. I checked my 627 and it has nowhere near that much play. I have also tuned up quite a few other SW revos of the new design and none of them have that much wobble. IMHO, the "fit" tolerance between the extractor and the cylinder is not the tolerance at the D hole, it's the fit at the end of the star "points" where they touch the cylinder. I think the SW "source" is not accurate or making it up as he goes along. Somebody else pointed out those ends might be peened and fitted to take some of that play out. I have never done it (mainly because I never saw one as wobbly as yours) but a gunsmith could do it. To clarify: the design relies on the brass in the tubes to hold that play in check, which is why carry up test on any of the new design guns must be done with brass in the tubes. The gun may carry up OK (?) but I still think the fit of the extractor is poor and should not be that loose. That said, if it passes carry up test you can shoot it as is. Edited September 20, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I tried to look online to see if anyone sells a new extractor star but so far all I found is for the 6-shot model.That is a fitted part, the ratchets have to be fitted precisely to the hand for correct timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I tried to look online to see if anyone sells a new extractor star but so far all I found is for the 6-shot model.That is a fitted part, the ratchets have to be fitted precisely to the hand for correct timing. Yes I've done several on 625's but not on the 8 shots. Not sure how hard it is to get the 8 shot stars either. Guess if I run across one I'd better grab it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I tried to look online to see if anyone sells a new extractor star but so far all I found is for the 6-shot model.That is a fitted part, the ratchets have to be fitted precisely to the hand for correct timing.Yes I've done several on 625's but not on the 8 shots. Not sure how hard it is to get the 8 shot stars either. Guess if I run across one I'd better grab it? I am not sure where to get one. I don't think SW sells them (?) Might try Brownells and Numrich. I am still concerned with the looks of the ratchets on yours. I have never seen one where the ends were "chewed on" like that and it makes me wonder what the problem was. If it was mine, I'd probably want to put in a new one and would be barking at SW right about now for a free one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Numrich lists the 8-shot cylinder for 627 (but is currently sold out). http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1232520.htm The 6-shot cylinder listed under it shows a picture of the cylinder and extractor as an assembly, so maybe they are sold as a set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Midway lists the extractor alone on backorder: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/161052/smith-and-wesson-extractor-assembly-s-and-w-627-new-style?cm_vc=ProductFinding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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