Draw help requested

[fishsticks]

Background - "C" class production shooter. Have been stuck for awhile, and decided to go after improving.

A couple disclaimers:

First - ignore the tape on my eye pro. I wanted to see if blocking vision and shooting both eyes open made any difference, and that's the only tape I had. Looks goofy, I know.

I know I'm losing time everywhere, but you have to start somewhere, and the draw seemed like a logical place. Next up reloads.

Times for these draws were in the 1.6-1.8 range with "A" hits. I'd like to start by getting to 1 sec, so help me out!

Thanks in advance.

http://youtu.be/tTJa1p14CRM

Edited August 30, 2014 by fishsticks

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've been told by a GM that he's happy with a 1.25 second draw, consistently.

Looks to me like your leaning back a little?? I'd lean just a little forward for

better recoil management.

[Jadeslade]

Get up on the balls of your feet, like you are going to steal second base. Settle in and when you are comfortable, then make a nice even quick draw and present. Make a conscious effort to make everything still in the rest of your body and move only arms to draw position. Be careful, I once had to get a cortisone shot after practicing 1000 draws with a loaded Colt for Western States SS Classic , over about a five week period. Practice with an empty gun to get your motions down.

[ToddKS]

I think that the lean back that others are seeing is somewhat related to the position of your pistol on your belt. I would try moving it forward some so that you are not having to reach back to get it. You can move it forward a fair bit and still be legal for production. The hip bone as described in the rule book is farther forward than some folks think.

The other thing I notice is that you have an up/down/up move as you are drawing the pistol rather than what some refer to as a snatching motion. This could be exacerbated by the position of the pistol.

I would recommend watching Ron Avery's science of the draw video on Youtube. You have to set aside the fact that "Cory" is in the video and just watch it for what Ron is trying to deliver. That video helped my draw quite a bit.

[Vlad]

Your left hand seems lazy. You should probably start moving it towards the gun at the same time as you move your right hand.

[fishsticks]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Based on the tips above, I moved the holster farther forward and tried a more active stance. Both seemed to help when I tried them in dry fire - 1.1-1.2 was fairly repeatable. I'll get to the range next week for some live fire validation and hope to post an updated video.

ToddKS - I've watched that video several times, and its very good. Ron Avery's stuff seems spot on, he has other videos on YT that are also helpful. My struggle is in implementation!

[Shadyscott999]

The things I notice...

1. You are going slow. I mean that, really slow. MOVE!

2. as noted above, your weak hand movement is killing you.
In dryfire at first, concentrate solely on your weak hand. Your strong hand knows what to do.

3. Move! Your hands should explode at the START or the beep. Not the middle.

[ZackJones]

I'm reading Ben Stoeger's practical pistol book and in it he describes a way to get your support hand on the gun faster. Start with the gun fully extended like you were firing it then holster it but keep your week hand on it as long as possible. That will show you how soon you can get both hands on the gun. Now try that drawing and see if it helps. I'm traveling and haven't had a chance to try it yet but I will as soon as I get home.

[fishsticks]

I'm reading Ben Stoeger's practical pistol book and in it he describes a way to get your support hand on the gun faster. Start with the gun fully extended like you were firing it then holster it but keep your week hand on it as long as possible. That will show you how soon you can get both hands on the gun. Now try that drawing and see if it helps. I'm traveling and haven't had a chance to try it yet but I will as soon as I get home.

Good idea, thanks. I have that book, but don't remember that part specifically, will look tonight.

Great tips everyone, keep them coming.

[niroth81]

Like others have said your weak hand isn't great. You are chasing the gun out with it. Get your weak hand palm over your belly button as you get your grip, shove the top of the first finger your your weak hand right up under the trigger guard as you get the gun clear of the holster and barrel level; let your weak hand roll over to establish your full firing grip.

Here your weak hand should already be moving towards your center line:

Your hand at this position should already be at your centerline ready to "accept" the gun.

You should have your weak hand on the gun here. Top of your first finger jammed under the trigger guard. As you push outwards (I'm not tacticool and don't use pushing outwards as a part of the draw stroke but for the purposes of explaining this bit) your weak hand should roll forwards.

Your weak hand thumb should be pointing towards the target and your wrist should be basically locked in that rolled state. This will help give you a more consistent grip. I noticed that on a couple of your draws your weak hand finger was in a different position. Sometimes flat against your strong hand (second draw), sometimes with your first finger curled (first draw).

Relax your shoulders a little too.

If you are shooting USPSA/IPSC, I'd encourage you to move your holster forwards an inch or so (so the front of the holster is in line with the front of the black stripe on your shirt). This will reduce the need for your hand to go back and can give you a little edge on speed with less wasted movement.

All this coming to you from a D grade production shooting who hit B grade in 12 months, moved to open and started beating master graders. The only way to go faster is to go faster, that's why we all love dry fire! We do all love dry fire right?? I was recently doing some dry fire practice with some club mates. At the start of the dry fire practice they were struggling with 2.5 second draw with one shot on the wall. By the end of it, 45 minutes or so, they were racing me a 0.9 seconds and getting a consistent grip, sight picture and were shocked that all it takes is some basics and to push yourself.

You are doing fantastic! Keep up the good work, be honest with yourself during your dry fire. Keep using your video to look at what you are doing with both dry fire and live fire; slow it down frame by frame and you'd be amazed at what you can see!

Well done, expect to see you in the sub 1 second draw in no time at all!

Jase

[fishsticks]

Following is a quick video where I tried to incorporate the good advice above. Moved the holster forward a bit, tried to keep weight forward and speed up the support hand. You can't hear the timer very well, but it is a 1.2 sec par time.

Comments, suggestions and critique welcome!

[niroth81]

Knocking .4 off is great! Looks good to me. Your left hand still appears to be chasing the gun out. Your arms appear to be 3/4 extension before you weak had gets on there. Do some slow practice to get your left hand on the gun sooner. Moving your left hand closer to the right side of your body can help with this.

Is pretty hard to tell, but looks like you are only starting your trigger pull once you have a sight picture. I can easily run my trigger half way in as the gun comes up and just finish the pull on the target. This is gun dependent though, wouldn't want you to have an AD trying this but it's something you could give a go.

The slow bits are definitely getting the gun out of the holster, and your trigger pull. Drop the par timer to 0.8 and push yourself hard. See if you can speed up your reaction time to the timer and get your grip a little quicker. You might also try running a single action trigger on a par time to see what time difference you have with single vs double action.

The last bit I'll say: I was curious one lazy afternoon at the range. Dribbling rubbish with my best mate as we do, I told him I could hit an alpha in 0.8. I'd never actually tried it but he called me out on it so I gave it a go and surprised myself. Get yourself a target at 5 meters and with target focus, draw and shoot. I think you'd be surprised how well you can shoot without having a hard sight focus at shorter distances.