aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I've been finding a lot of tight primer pockets/ square shoulders on the primer pockets on range brass here lately. I know I can swage them, but that adds a step to my reloading process. For the time being, I am looking at the primer before putting it into the Dillon 550. If the pocket looks tight, I pitch it in a box, if I try to seat the primer and encounter too much resistance, I pitch it into the box. In particular, the worst is PPU, NATO, oddball stuff, most Agulia, some Blazer, Speer, some Win, etc... The best brass for primer pockets is RPC and S&B. The softer Federal primers are quick to deform. What is the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 At first glance your list looks a little odd. As a matter of fact it is the exact opposite of what most of us have found to be true of brass. Blazer, Speer and CCI are all the same family and pretty much some of the best brass I have found for reloading. RP and straight WIN as well as FC are all very good brass. S&B generally has pretty tight pockets and has the nick name of primer crushers. They are not crimped, just too tight for most to fool with. Also, S&B has a nasty habit of using steel cases that look just like real brass to the uninformed eye. Takes a magnet to find it in the brass pile. I tend to agree on PPU. I have found it to be junk mostly. As for the NATO and "some WIN". That's because the primer pockets are crimped. Any NATO military 9mm brass is going to be crimped. As for "some WIN", let me guess? WIN NT and WCC. WCC is military brass and is crimped. Anything with NT I pitch. NT is non toxic primers and something is screwy with them. FC NT and WIN NT are more difficult to load without swaging. I usually just collect that type stuff for a few years and sell it off on here to a 1050 user and let them swage it all. The only one I keep because it is just so stout is WCC. I remove the crimp with a pocket reamer in a drill and store it. I have about 15k under the bench. Some have said they found some straight WIN brass that is crimped recently but so far I have never found that to be the case for me. There are several threads on here about good/bad brass. You should search them out. Very good reading and it keeps the press problems to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahlsan Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Shooting in a military area I find a lot of Wcc brass, some years I can load others not so much. However I have found that aguila loads like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Shooting in a military area I find a lot of Wcc brass, some years I can load others not so much. However I have found that aguila loads like a champ. One thing about brass such as WCC is that often times you pick it up when it has already been swaged by somebody else. Many custom ammo makers like to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahlsan Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I probably should save the Wcc for others, been chucking it lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Save your brass. You can always trade it for what you need, or scrap it. Think of it as being "green" and recycling it.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It and fired primers bring the same price at the scrap metal yard. Check around if you are going to sell any as the price varies a little from yard to yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeactionjackson Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Give it to someone who has a s1050, it won' bother them that it is military brass ~g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 At first glance your list looks a little odd. As a matter of fact it is the exact opposite of what most of us have found to be true of brass. Blazer, Speer and CCI are all the same family and pretty much some of the best brass I have found for reloading. RP and straight WIN as well as FC are all very good brass. S&B generally has pretty tight pockets and has the nick name of primer crushers. They are not crimped, just too tight for most to fool with. Also, S&B has a nasty habit of using steel cases that look just like real brass to the uninformed eye. Takes a magnet to find it in the brass pile. I tend to agree on PPU. I have found it to be junk mostly. As for the NATO and "some WIN". That's because the primer pockets are crimped. Any NATO military 9mm brass is going to be crimped. As for "some WIN", let me guess? WIN NT and WCC. WCC is military brass and is crimped. Anything with NT I pitch. NT is non toxic primers and something is screwy with them. FC NT and WIN NT are more difficult to load without swaging. I usually just collect that type stuff for a few years and sell it off on here to a 1050 user and let them swage it all. The only one I keep because it is just so stout is WCC. I remove the crimp with a pocket reamer in a drill and store it. I have about 15k under the bench. Some have said they found some straight WIN brass that is crimped recently but so far I have never found that to be the case for me. There are several threads on here about good/bad brass. You should search them out. Very good reading and it keeps the press problems to a minimum. I agree with this. OP's list is backwards like Sarge states. I personally disagree on the PPU. I've had no problems loading it. I don't prefer it, but no issues. Love Blazer brass. Primers go in so smooth and easy it sometimes feels like it actually didn't go in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Since Sarge indicated my experience is unusual, I decided to look into it a bit further. I attached pics of 5 Win cases that should be identical, but they aren't. I marked them distinctly so they could be tracked. I arranged them in orderthat I thought they would be useful. Case 1 Primer Pocket Dimension .167 Case 2 PPD .166 Case 3 PPD .165 Case 4 PPD.166 Case 5 PPD .165 Case 1 was sucessful in seating the primer properly, 2-4 failed miserably (I usually back off when I feel it going wrong, but just for posterity, I attempted to seat them), and 5 is slightly uneven. As a control, I measured 3 R-P PPD R-P 1 PPD .1695 R-P 2 PPD .1685 R-P 3 PPD .169 All seated the primers perfectly. I also measured the Federal Small Pistol Primer from the Blue Box. Primer diameter .173 I have pics of everything, but I am limited in what I am allowed to post here. First thing someone is going to say is that I'm doing it wrong. I have thousands of rounds loaded, it isn't that. I figure I am getting an actual brass spec issue in about 25% of the range brass I see. I am culling at a rate slightly more than that. I can see correlations in some brands, and a visual inspection will show some primers just look smaller than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) At first glance your list looks a little odd. As a matter of fact it is the exact opposite of what most of us have found to be true of brass. Blazer, Speer and CCI are all the same family and pretty much some of the best brass I have found for reloading. RP and straight WIN as well as FC are all very good brass. S&B generally has pretty tight pockets and has the nick name of primer crushers. They are not crimped, just too tight for most to fool with. Also, S&B has a nasty habit of using steel cases that look just like real brass to the uninformed eye. Takes a magnet to find it in the brass pile. I tend to agree on PPU. I have found it to be junk mostly. As for the NATO and "some WIN". That's because the primer pockets are crimped. Any NATO military 9mm brass is going to be crimped. As for "some WIN", let me guess? WIN NT and WCC. WCC is military brass and is crimped. Anything with NT I pitch. NT is non toxic primers and something is screwy with them. FC NT and WIN NT are more difficult to load without swaging. I usually just collect that type stuff for a few years and sell it off on here to a 1050 user and let them swage it all. The only one I keep because it is just so stout is WCC. I remove the crimp with a pocket reamer in a drill and store it. I have about 15k under the bench. Some have said they found some straight WIN brass that is crimped recently but so far I have never found that to be the case for me. There are several threads on here about good/bad brass. You should search them out. Very good reading and it keeps the press problems to a minimum. I agree with this. OP's list is backwards like Sarge states. I personally disagree on the PPU. I've had no problems loading it. I don't prefer it, but no issues. Love Blazer brass. Primers go in so smooth and easy it sometimes feels like it actually didn't go in! Interesting, Based on your post, I tested 5 random pieces of Blazer brass, same way, pics taken of everything. Case 1 PPD .167, Primer seated slightly crooked, can use for practice Case 2 PPD .166, Primer seated slightly crooked, can use for practice Case 3 PPD .167, Primer deformed as with the Win, unusuable Case 4 PPD .168, Primer seated slightly crooked, can use for practice Case 5 PPD .1675 Primer seated properly, can use for match Each of the Blazers had a sharp shoulder of the primer pocket, is this causing the lip of the primer cup to hang up slightly causing it to go in crooked, hard to say?? I see UniqueTek makes a part called the Turbo Bearing for the 550, which allows the shell plate to be tightened up, theoretically reducing the play. I wonder if this will help with the weird brass. Edited August 24, 2014 by aceinyerface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohn Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Also it is important to note that when stating which brass is good or bad, the grain of the bullet that is being loaded needs to be mentioned. I have aguila, cbc, rws and several others will not case gauge when loading a FMJ 147 RN. If I take the same brass that was previously mentioned, they will now load 124 FMJ RN into those cases. Hmmmmmm............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Also it is important to note that when stating which brass is good or bad, the grain of the bullet that is being loaded needs to be mentioned. I have aguila, cbc, rws and several others will not case gauge when loading a FMJ 147 RN. If I take the same brass that was previously mentioned, they will now load 124 FMJ RN into those cases. Hmmmmmm............ I've never had a problem, but I'll keep that in mind. I think that is a separate issue to the primer pocket issue. Although, out of spec brass may be out of spec in more than one way. I load 147g Xtreme Bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I am letting my brass sit in the sun for a bit. Maybe the expansion and contraction is affecting the brass by a few hundredths, such that A/C is causing the brass to contract enough to be difficult to load. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I am letting my brass sit in the sun for a bit. Maybe the expansion and contraction is affecting the brass by a few hundredths, such that A/C is causing the brass to contract enough to be difficult to load. We shall see. When my brass starts acting up I generally send it to Disney World for a long weekend. After a nice vacation my brass usually shapes up just fine . Seriously though, I think something else must be going on here. I've noticed the quality of the primer pockets on Winchester brass has been somewhat inconsistent over the last few years but if you're having issues with Speer and Blazer it simply must be something else. Your Dillon if running properly should run primers home with authority on any non-crimped 9mm brass cases. I would reserve the Federal primers for FC brass and move to something a bit harder (say Winchester or CCI) for all of your other 9mm rounds. FC Brass (and CCI Blazer brass) are notoriously easy to seat primers. Could be something as simple as a shell plate adjustment, the batch of primers your using or even your seating technique but I would rule out the brass itself. I don't offer many solutions other than I would rule out the brass being the issue and look for something else. Edited August 24, 2014 by razorfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I did a little informal test, I punched the primers and measured a random sample of brass, it was all .167 ish, I left it outside in 90+ degree heat and it was measuring .169-.170 ish, less primer problems as well. I am measuring some warm Blazers now, .169 and .170, I will see what they say in the morning. This may be the key to the brass issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I am letting my brass sit in the sun for a bit. Maybe the expansion and contraction is affecting the brass by a few hundredths, such that A/C is causing the brass to contract enough to be difficult to load. We shall see. Could be something as simple as a shell plate adjustment, the batch of primers your using or even your seating technique but I would rule out the brass itself. It's not that, I thought of that first. I cleaned and adjusted the shell plate down until it was difficult to turn. I really do think it is the brass. The Federal Primers should seat without question, although the problems did become more prevalent when I switched over from CCI. (I switched because I was getting a 1-2% light strike issue in my new gun.) Edited August 24, 2014 by aceinyerface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 After a few hours indoors the Blazer brass that was .169 and .170 is .168 and .1675. Interesting. I wonder if warming the brass slightly more will have an effect, also, will cooling it make it smaller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 A-Merc is total garbage. This brass is very soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 I broke the machine down for maintenance and I found a problem. The underside of the press where the primer comes out had a bunch of spent primer crud buildup. I cleaned it off with a Q-Tip and am now able to better process that sketchy brass. The too tight to seat factor is down about 50%. Now, the Blazer, Speer and Wins mostly seat properly. The rest from my original assessment holds true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grouptherapy Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I just load them. When I hit a hard one guess what... Must be military crimp. Don't over think it. No biggie. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now