Pistol Grip Vs. Monsterman Grip For California 3 Gun

[gose]

Can you use one of these in Cali? Not a rifle, not a pistol.image.jpg

It requires a decent understanding of CA law to do the AR pistol thing, so I'm betting it's not a pistol, either. It's not old enough to be C&R, so it's NFA.

Not necessarily. See this letter to the Franklin Armory owner from the ATF (btw, I was wrong about AOW and NFA also).

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

Again, if one is really interested I'm certain Franklin would be willing to help out. Otherwise more detail could probably be gotten from Calguns.net.

That letter is worth about as much as the cost of the bandwidth needed to download the pdf here in CA. That brace is pretty much guaranteed to end you up with a felony state SBR charge and a letter from the ATF isnt going to help your defense much.

[ummm]

Can you use one of these in Cali? Not a rifle, not a pistol.image.jpg

It requires a decent understanding of CA law to do the AR pistol thing, so I'm betting it's not a pistol, either. It's not old enough to be C&R, so it's NFA.

Not necessarily. See this letter to the Franklin Armory owner from the ATF (btw, I was wrong about AOW and NFA also).

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

Again, if one is really interested I'm certain Franklin would be willing to help out. Otherwise more detail could probably be gotten from Calguns.net.

IANAL, but I don't see anything in that letter which contradicts my conclusion that it's NFA. Remember, in CA we are burdened with compliance to two definitions of SBR, the Federal definition and the different CA definition. I agree the weapon is GTG according to the Feds (which I think your letter makes clear), but according to CA DOJ, I think it's an SBR all the way, and therefore NFA.

According to CA, an AR-15 lower is a rifle, unless it is specifically documented at the time of manufacture to be a pistol lower. I'm going to guess that was not done in this case (probably a pretty safe guess), therefore it's a rifle. In CA, any change made to a rifle which brings the barrel length below 16 or the overall length below...[don't remember, doesn't matter, the barrel length is obv below 16"] creates an SBR. I think the relevant PC is 27 CFR 478.11.

Worse yet, because it's not a pistol lower, merely possessing the parts to create an SBR, even if you don't assemble them, is also a crime...constructive possession.

Edited May 8, 2014 by ummm

[gunther]

So if you have a pistol (ar) you have to have a bullet button, is this right? I dont know california laws. The SigTac arm brace is perfectly legal to use on a Ar pistol, even if you shoot it like a shoulder stock at least according to the ATF.

[dart368]

Well, I am not going to use a pistol, a pistol and a shotgun at a 3 gun match. I guess I could use my 18 inch barrel AR, my shotgun and that as the pistol. But then again, I don't see the pros using it.

If the pistol grip gives that much of an advantage, why don't people use it on the shotgun instead of opting to use a regular stock, similar to an AR with a Monsterman Grip?

[ummm]

So if you have a pistol (ar) you have to have a bullet button, is this right? I dont know california laws. The SigTac arm brace is perfectly legal to use on a Ar pistol, even if you shoot it like a shoulder stock at least according to the ATF.

Yes, an AR pistol must have a bullet button. This is because of CA assault weapon laws, which are blind as to the type of firearm. Yes, the arm brace is legal.

[polymerfeelsweirdman]

there is always the option of using a mini 14 or that other thing that looks like a mini that takes ar uppers that someone linked

not the most ergonomic solution but better than other options I would say

[gunther]

Uh.. I guess there is always golf!

[gunther5]

Strike that last comment! I'd just shoot heavy metal, the M1A rocks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dart368]

After reading all the comments and thinking about it, I believe I can do just as good with my monsterman grip set up than the guy next to me with the pistol grip set up. Thanks for all your responses.

[Trail3]

I have been shooting 3 gun since 2002 in California. Started with a Mini 14 and then progressed to a custom ASI Mini 14.

Then the OLL came available in late 2005, I switched to the AR platform. I went with the U-15 stock set up to use with my pre ban mags, without the infamous bullet button.

I did not like the Monster Man Grip for 3 gun or the Solar Tactical wrap set up. I feel I can grip the gun better and more secure for matches with the U-15, or the Hammer Head or the Thorenson Stock set up. Used the Mini's at 3 USPSA Nationals, and my AR at

the other 2 in Vegas, but I switched to an A2 stock and pistol grip when I got to Vegas. Practice with my Ca legal pistol grip 22LR AR before the out of state matches. It all boils down to what you are more comfortable shooting.

[outerlimits]

but I switched to an A2 stock and pistol grip when I got to Vegas

Now that's funny

[Trail3]

I switched because I did not want outerlimits making fun of me!

[gunther]

http://www.aresdefen...om/?page_id=729

Apparently this is gonna be under $800 msrp. From there video it seems you can swap any AR upper on to it. Might be worth a look if they sell just a lower reciever.

[Shooter115]

That moment you show up to a match in a free state with a Californicated AR reminds me of this.

"Are you happy wearing that?"