627 trigger

[springy]

I've been working on my wife's 627 for a couple months now, and she's very happy with it - had a great time at the nats this past weekend. The pull is light and smooth.

Howsomever, the trigger return is not smooth. One of the issues was the hand dragging back down on the bottom of the window. I smoothed and polished the back of the hand and the underside of the hand "finger". After I did that the roughness was about half what it was. It seems that the "new?" trigger (my experience is a 19, 610, and 617) with the tit on the cylinder lock is not able to be as smooth in action as the "old?" style plain blade type triggers?

I know this is a bit out there, but I really don't like the rough return. I've looked at parts a bit, and my question finally becomes, will an older "N" frame trigger fit in a new 627. I'll probably be the $50 guinea pig on this, but any info would be helpful.

I finally put a dab of synthetic wheel bearing grease on the cylinder lock where contact is made, and that helped it enough to know that it is the problem.

I'm thinking that since there is no need for single action, fitting a new trigger would only require polishing contact points.

anybody?

[pskys2]

On a whim I traded hammers/triggers back and forth among my 625 PC and 627 PC with no issues,other than changing the hand, traded the trigger with a M29 and 625 PC.

But your first premise I don't buy. My trigger on the PC 627, after I smoothed and lightened it out, is far superior to either my M29 or my PC 625. But I have all of them worked to a smooth return.

Are you talking of that pin on the Hand? Or the Trigger Lock?

[springy]

On a whim I traded hammers/triggers back and forth among my 625 PC and 627 PC with no issues,other than changing the hand, traded the trigger with a M29 and 625 PC.

But your first premise I don't buy. My trigger on the PC 627, after I smoothed and lightened it out, is far superior to either my M29 or my PC 625. But I have all of them worked to a smooth return.

Are you talking of that pin on the Hand? Or the Trigger Lock?

Where the trigger resets the cylinder lock. It's full contact to unlock, but a small tit/pin that drags back up to reset the cyclinder lock. It's a very small contact point - I've polished both surfaces, the pin and the lock, to basically chrome, and lubed with synthetic gun oil, Mobil 1, and finally grease. It's not enough contact surface. You're info on changing hammers and triggers is enough for me to gamble $50 on ending this quest.

[bountyhunter]

I recall the Kuhnhausen manual had a warning about "swapping in" either hammers or triggers from gun to gun. They are, or were, fitted parts. Best chances of success are if hammer/triggers are swapped in as a set across guns of the same model.

[bountyhunter]

On a whim I traded hammers/triggers back and forth among my 625 PC and 627 PC with no issues,other than changing the hand, traded the trigger with a M29 and 625 PC.

But your first premise I don't buy. My trigger on the PC 627, after I smoothed and lightened it out, is far superior to either my M29 or my PC 625. But I have all of them worked to a smooth return.

Are you talking of that pin on the Hand? Or the Trigger Lock?

Where the trigger resets the cylinder lock.

have you tried installing a new cylinder stop? That's a pretty cheap part and easy to fit.

[bountyhunter]

I have been shooting S&W revos for a long time. I think the newer ones are better quality. I had reservations about MIM parts that have so far been unfounded.

I am not a rabid MIM hater, it's a viable process for specific types of parts.... assuming some kind of basic QA is applied to the process. A few years back, it was incorrectly reported that the PC guns did not use MIM parts. In fact, they did not use the MIM hammers and triggers but did have some MIM parts including the rebound slide and trigger lever (strut) among others. On my 627, you will see a picture of the trigger lever which shows it is grossly and visibly defective. The end which is supposed to look like a ball did not form, incomplete penetration of slurry into the mold during injection. It was never noticed, it went for chroming and then was installed onto a trigger and put in my gun. The jagged end trashed the "cup" in the rebound slide and gave it a bad trigger pull. But that's what was shipped in the gun.

The gun had a lot of other defects, the trigger lever/rebound slide turned out to be the easiest to fix.

Edited May 6, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

OK, lets try attaching the picture again. This is the trigger lever from my new 627.

Edited May 6, 2014 by bountyhunter

[alecmc]

OK, lets try attaching the picture again. This is the trigger lever from my new 627.

why does it look like somebody tried to reshape it with a pair of vice grips

that thing is jacked up

Edited May 6, 2014 by alecmc

[practical_man]

I have been shooting S&W revos for a long time. I think the newer ones are better quality. I had reservations about MIM parts that have so far been unfounded.

I am not a rabid MIM hater, it's a viable process for specific types of parts.... assuming some kind of basic QA is applied to the process. A few years back, it was incorrectly reported that the PC guns did not use MIM parts. In fact, they did not use the MIM hammers and triggers but did have some MIM parts including the rebound slide and trigger lever (strut) among others. On my 627, you will see a picture of the trigger lever which shows it is grossly and visibly defective. The end which is supposed to look like a ball did not form, incomplete penetration of slurry into the mold during injection. It was never noticed, it went for chroming and then was installed onto a trigger and put in my gun. The jagged end trashed the "cup" in the rebound slide and gave it a bad trigger pull. But that's what was shipped in the gun.

The gun had a lot of other defects, the trigger lever/rebound slide turned out to be the easiest to fix.

That is one ugly part.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I hope S&W made it right, or at least sent you parts.

[Tom E]

Where the trigger resets the cylinder lock. It's full contact to unlock, but a small tit/pin that drags back up to reset the cyclinder lock. It's a very small contact point - I've polished both surfaces, the pin and the lock, to basically chrome, and lubed with synthetic gun oil, Mobil 1, and finally grease. It's not enough contact surface. You're info on changing hammers and triggers is enough for me to gamble $50 on ending this quest.

The MIM trigger is just fine. The problem is the contour of the surface(s) not their size. Watch how the trigger interacts with the stop. The "lower" corner is what pulls the stop down out of the cylinder notch. The "upper" corner controls how the the trigger "pushes" the stop forward resetting the stop at the end of the trigger return. The sharp "corner" on the cylinder stop also needs a bit of attention. The contours are more important that a mirror smooth surface finish. The problem is it's easy to do a bit too much and have junk parts. The price of the learning process. You can get it so you can barely feel the reset when you're trying to.

[Tom E]

A few years back, it was incorrectly reported that the PC guns did not use MIM parts. In fact, they did not use the MIM hammers and triggers but did have some MIM parts including the rebound slide and trigger lever (strut) among others. On my 627...

I'm amazed you're still whining about this.

[Tom E]

I recall the Kuhnhausen manual had a warning about "swapping in" either hammers or triggers from gun to gun. They are, or were, fitted parts. Best chances of success are if hammer/triggers are swapped in as a set across guns of the same model.

Know what that really meant? They had boxes of triggers and hammers and if the first pair they grabbed didn't work together they tried different ones 'til they got a trigger and hammer that worked together. "Select fit" would be the more correct term. Some parts were "fitted" as in metal removed. Cylinder stops for the pad "height", sears for length and tip contour. Barrels had (and still have) the B/C gap "adjusted" with a file...

[bountyhunter]

A few years back, it was incorrectly reported that the PC guns did not use MIM parts. In fact, they did not use the MIM hammers and triggers but did have some MIM parts including the rebound slide and trigger lever (strut) among others. On my 627...

I'm amazed you're still whining about this.

You're right. I should be overjoyed that I special ordered a $1300 POS that arrived needing a buttload of gunsmithing before I could even fire it and then more when I found out the headspace was so under spec the fired brass jammed in the breech face after the second round fired.

I don't know what I was thinking when I figured that a so called performance center would actually check a gun before shipping it.

[bountyhunter]

I recall the Kuhnhausen manual had a warning about "swapping in" either hammers or triggers from gun to gun. They are, or were, fitted parts. Best chances of success are if hammer/triggers are swapped in as a set across guns of the same model.

Know what that really meant? They had boxes of triggers and hammers and if the first pair they grabbed didn't work together they tried different ones 'til they got a trigger and hammer that worked together. "Select fit" would be the more correct term. Some parts were "fitted" as in metal removed. Cylinder stops for the pad "height", sears for length and tip contour. Barrels had (and still have) the B/C gap "adjusted" with a file...

So, you're saying:

"Barrels had (and still have) the B/C gap "adjusted" with a file..."

I kind of noticed that on my new 627 (see picture). But I did have a question.... would it have killed the minimum wage idiot hacking away with the file to spend the extra five seconds it would have taken to put a piece of tape on the underside of the top strap before he started butchering my new 627?

As for the correct way, quoting Kuhnhausen (page 97):

"Barrel to Cylinder Clearance

While you can use a file to work down the barrel face, I suggest using a barrel face cutter, pilot, and guide. This tool will cit the barrel face at 90 degrees to the bore centerline."

Edited May 7, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

I have been shooting S&W revos for a long time. I think the newer ones are better quality. I had reservations about MIM parts that have so far been unfounded.

I am not a rabid MIM hater, it's a viable process for specific types of parts.... assuming some kind of basic QA is applied to the process. A few years back, it was incorrectly reported that the PC guns did not use MIM parts. In fact, they did not use the MIM hammers and triggers but did have some MIM parts including the rebound slide and trigger lever (strut) among others. On my 627, you will see a picture of the trigger lever which shows it is grossly and visibly defective. The end which is supposed to look like a ball did not form, incomplete penetration of slurry into the mold during injection. It was never noticed, it went for chroming and then was installed onto a trigger and put in my gun. The jagged end trashed the "cup" in the rebound slide and gave it a bad trigger pull. But that's what was shipped in the gun.

The gun had a lot of other defects, the trigger lever/rebound slide turned out to be the easiest to fix.

That is one ugly part.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I hope S&W made it right, or at least sent you parts.

They eventually shipped me one after three weeks. I got sick of waiting and bought the parts from Midway. I don't keep spares on the old trigger levers because they don't use them anymore on the new MIM guns (MIM triggers use a different lever). I have a spare lever now..... Edited May 7, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

OK, lets try attaching the picture again. This is the trigger lever from my new 627.

why does it look like somebody tried to reshape it with a pair of vice grips

that thing is jacked up

Can't see in the photo but the chrome plating on it is pristine all over, even in the "ragged" areas so it was not a matter of being bashed, crushed or even fracturing under stress after manufacture. It came out of the mold that way. Edited May 7, 2014 by bountyhunter

[Toolguy]

If the trigger return is still a problem, radius and polish the upper front corner on the rebound slide where it resets the hammer. Radius and polish the mating part on the hammer. This can help the reset quite a bit in some cases.

[4mike]

If the trigger return is still a problem, radius and polish the upper front corner on the rebound slide where it resets the hammer. Radius and polish the mating part on the hammer. This can help the reset quite a bit in some cases.

+1

and check if you have instaled blue or red cylinder stop spring

[springy]

If the trigger return is still a problem, radius and polish the upper front corner on the rebound slide where it resets the hammer. Radius and polish the mating part on the hammer. This can help the reset quite a bit in some cases.

+1

and check if you have instaled blue or red cylinder stop spring

rebound is radiused and polished and totally smooth in operation. It's the cylinder lock reset - which is also polished. I've never heard of blue and red stop springs. Where would I see a listing for these critters?

[Toolguy]

Also make sure there are no rough spots in the slot of the cylinder lock. You can smooth it with a small round file if needed. The same for the slot at the bottom of the hammer block flag. Radius the bottom edge of the front part of the hammer just below where it strikes the firing pin and the top of the flag on both sides where it comes up to block the hammer. The top edge of the flag may be catching on the hammer.