blaster113 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) This is perplexing me. I have a stainless P226 Elite that will occasionally stovepipe on the last round in the mag. Round count is only about 300 including today's practice session. Have a Wolff 14lb recoil spring, GGI Fat guide rod, 17lb GGI mainspring and sear spring. Ammo used is 147 grain moly and plated bullets loaded to 135pf. This gun has the new and butt ass ugly large extractor. Lube is just oil, FP10. this sucks. every other SIG I've had, including a P228, P220 .45, P226, P226ST .40, and a P226R 9mm have never jammed on me. Never. And I've fed all of those guns everything from duty hollowpoints to very questionable close-to-out-of-spec reloads. Now my fancy brand new silver gun is not cooperating.... Im thinking its that damn new ugly extractor. all of my other guns worked just fine with the old extractor. anyone else have issues in new guns with the new extractor? Edited April 25, 2014 by blaster113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 If it was a 1911, I would tell you to try a lighter recoil spring. 14 pounds is pretty heavy for 9mm. I had one that would do the exact same thing until I went with a lighter RS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 First thing I would do is try the stock recoil spring (16#) and rod and see if it still has the problem. A friend had problems with his new 226 with mag springs. Factory said there were no issues but the Wolff spring I gave him solved his problem but I can't remember what the problem is and it was a 10 round mag. My 226 runs all stock parts except for a stainless guide rod on the 9MM top end. I run 147 and 160gr ammo. It is no secret that I am no fan of anything GGI sells or does since the factory had to fix my gun and another local shooter later had problems also. Start with stock and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 I was using both SIG and Mec Gar 10 rounders and still having the problem. I didn't think of marking the mags but will do that next practice session. GGI recommended the 14 pound recoil spring; I have a feeling that's it and the spring is a little too heavy. I liked the feel of the 12lb Wolff variable in my alloy P226R, so I'll probably switch it the spring next practice session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Did it stove pipe when the gun was factory stock? If not try replacing your aftermarket parts one at a time to determine which is the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) I was using both SIG and Mec Gar 10 rounders and still having the problem. I didn't think of marking the mags but will do that next practice session. GGI recommended the 14 pound recoil spring; I have a feeling that's it and the spring is a little too heavy. I liked the feel of the 12lb Wolff variable in my alloy P226R, so I'll probably switch it the spring next practice session. My 9MM top end has the new style extractor and I have no problems at all with the stock spring but I am NOT using new mags. All my 9MM mags are pre ban zipper back with new Wolff springs. Good luck. Edit to clarify: I have one Sig 226 and I have three top ends. One in 9MM, one in 40S&W with a spare 357SIG barrel, and the third is a Magnaported 357SIG top end. All run perfect with stock springs but I run a stainless guide rod on the 9MM http://guiderod.com/ Edited April 25, 2014 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staudacher Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) If it was a 1911, I would tell you to try a lighter recoil spring. 14 pounds is pretty heavy for 9mm. I had one that would do the exact same thing until I went with a lighter RS. True for a 1911 but not for a link-less action gun. I have a feeling that's it and the spring is a little too heavy. No, the stock spring is approx 16 lbs. 14 should not be too heavy.If you go too light on the recoil spring it lets the gun unlock too quickly. This will have an adverse effect on accuracy. One thing you might check is slide travel. Check the available slide travel with the stock spring and guide rod versus the aftermarket. I had an issue once with some Wolff springs that were three coils longer than the previous Wolff springs I had purchased (same weight). The longer spring was causing the gun to short-stroke slightly due to coil bind which was making for very weak ejection. Edited April 26, 2014 by staudacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Just read an easy way to determine if you're recoil spring is going solid (thanks to Gerry at Total Automation for this): Remove the slide. Remove the recoil spring, guide rod, and barrel. Replace the slide and retract it until it stops against the locking block. Make a pencil mark somewhere across the slide & frame at this position. Reinstall the barrel, guide rod, and recoil spring. Retract the slide fully and compare the pencil marks. If the slide mark is ahead of the frame mark, the recoil spring is going solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staudacher Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Just read an easy way to determine if you're recoil spring is going solid (thanks to Gerry at Total Automation for this): Remove the slide. Remove the recoil spring, guide rod, and barrel. Replace the slide and retract it until it stops against the locking block. Make a pencil mark somewhere across the slide & frame at this position. Reinstall the barrel, guide rod, and recoil spring. Retract the slide fully and compare the pencil marks. If the slide mark is ahead of the frame mark, the recoil spring is going solid. I put a piece of paper masking tape on the slide and frame and mark it. Unless you just want to know max slide travel it would be easier to compare the stock configuration versus the after market. Mainly because assembling the gun with out the spring can be a pain in the butt!!! If you do want to assemble it without the spring I have found it easier (for me anyway) to assemble the gun upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staudacher Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 One more thing. I am not a big fan of the fat rod. While it can solve the occasional issue of the smaller diameter single wire recoil springs coming out the front of the slide it can also cause its own problems due to the inconsistencies of the Wolff springs. If you do use the fat rod make sure the Wolff spring you are using does not bind on the rod and that you have a thin film of light oil on the rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 so today I tried running the gun with the stock recoil spring and guide rod; problems only got WORSE. At least two, maybe 3 death jam failure to extract issues during a 250 round practice session. I cleared the malfunctions so quick I lost count in between the yelling and cursing. And also 2 last round stovepipes. All with both OEM and Mec Gar 10 round mags. I'd run only hi-caps if Hawaii wasnt a Communist 10 round state. I think that big fugly piece of shit extractor is the problem for sure. And all this the week before I leave for Area 1. Guess I'm going to have to use my backup, an alloy P226R. at least that gun runs 100 %. I am extremely disappointed in SIG. For what I paid for this shiny silver POS paperweight I couldve bought two Blue Label Glock 34's and have change leftover. Wonder if the extraction issues are the same ones the 9mm X5's have. Round count on the POS is only about 1000. We'll see how good SIGs warranty department is after I get back from Area 1 and I send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Blaster, hope you get it worked out. I am on the fence now to buy a new Sig Super Match or a 2011 for a limited gun. See you at Area-1. Are you part of the Valley Isle club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I started with stock orange springs and later switched to GGI pink springs in my 226, using 125gr reloads at 135PF. As I understand it, the pink springs are heavier than the orange. Since you went lighter with the 14# and I don't know how well-used your stock spring is, I'm just wondering if the barrel is unlocking early and letting some gas out through the chamber, reducing the energy going into cycling the slide. Do your cases have a lot of black on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 I was having failure to extract problems with the stock spring and guide rod. The stock system was brand new. Unacceptable for a $1000+ pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Blaster, hope you get it worked out. I am on the fence now to buy a new Sig Super Match or a 2011 for a limited gun. See you at Area-1. Are you part of the Valley Isle club? Yes, Im part of the Valley Sport Shooters. For sure go with a 2011 vs any SIG pistol for Limited. Cant beat a 2011 trigger and theres so much aftermarket support. And hell, I got a P226 marked "Elite" which dont work. For builders I recommend Camerons Custom; great guys to work with, fast build time of 4 months and more importantly their guns run like sewing machines. I also really like Brazos Custom Limited guns but I heard their wait time is about 1 year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 We were over your way in November and stopped in to watch a match. Great group of shooters. I am squaded with Eddie Garcia from Cameron's for Area-1. Leaning toward a 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Blaster -- put an 11 lb recoil spring in it and try it. My stainless steel elite P-226 9mm was a little tight at first but runs fine with the lighter springs and minor power factor ammo. The only problem I had with it was after bending the slide catch level out some. Turned out I had twisted the long leg of the lever slightly and the slide lock lever was dragging on the slide inside the frame. Replaced it with a straight one and the gun ran fine. I've run 11-13 lb Wolff recoil springs in 3 P-226s for years without problem. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 This is perplexing me. I have a stainless P226 Elite that will occasionally stovepipe on the last round in the mag. Round count is only about 300 including today's practice session. Have a Wolff 14lb recoil spring, GGI Fat guide rod, 17lb GGI mainspring and sear spring. Ammo used is 147 grain moly and plated bullets loaded to 135pf. This gun has the new and butt ass ugly large extractor. Lube is just oil, FP10. this sucks. every other SIG I've had, including a P228, P220 .45, P226, P226ST .40, and a P226R 9mm have never jammed on me. Never. And I've fed all of those guns everything from duty hollowpoints to very questionable close-to-out-of-spec reloads. Now my fancy brand new silver gun is not cooperating.... Im thinking its that damn new ugly extractor. all of my other guns worked just fine with the old extractor. anyone else have issues in new guns with the new extractor? My new 226 would never lock back on last round for the first few hundred rounds fired. After it broke in, all problems went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staudacher Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I was having failure to extract problems with the stock spring and guide rod. The stock system was brand new. Unacceptable for a $1000+ pistol. Have all the problems been with the same ammo? If so are you running a fast powder? If the problem is the extractor. Another thing to try is going up on the recoil spring. A heavier spring will let the pressure drop of more before the gun unlocks. If you have access to a P226 40/357 green recoil spring you might give that a try. The green spring is around 20# if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 An update; I just received the gun back from SIG for warranty repair and to have the AEP done on the gun. Father's Day special; $40 off and free shipping back and forth because of the warranty work. The problem was a broken or defective extractor spring as the extractor tension was very soft when I first got the gun. Didn't know any better as this is my first experience with the new style ugly long extractor. New extractor spring installed at the factory and now the extractor tension is tight. The trigger work while not earth shatteringly light has made a nice improvement on the D/A pull. The S/A pull was already very good and now its even better. And this is with the stock mainspring installed; I have yet to put back my go-to 17lb mainspring that I usually use so the trigger pull will be even nicer. Ran the gun in a short match today with 130pf 147 grain plated reloads and the gun was 100% reliable. I can't believe the accuracy of this baby. Little tiny groups if I do my part. I think this gun is more accurate than my full house STI Limited gun. also very soft shooting due to the weight. was using a GGI recoil rod with a 14lb recoil spring. I will be trying a 13lb spring soon. Overall I'm very pleased with the outcome of the warranty service and the work done on the pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Glad to hear you got it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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