ZackJones Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Last night as I was loading some rounds using the Lee Auto Disk with e3 I was paying attention to the charges it was throwing. It ranged from a low of 2.8 to a high of 3.2. I was loading practice ammo so I wasn't too concerned with the variance but it got me to thinking what is an acceptable variance? At my current skill level I seriously doubt I could tell the difference between one cartridge loaded with 2.8 and another loaded with 3.2. So how about you - when you're loading do you see a variance between charges? If so what's acceptable to you? I realize the majority reload with progressive presses so checking charge throws probably isn't something that's done as often as I do it on my single stage press. Thanks in advance for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I switched from N320 to E3 and saw similar, although not as severe, issues when using a Lee perfect powder measuring system and a Dillon 650xl powder system. I can throw 10 shots that are in a range of +/- .05 grains and then one will show up at random that is +/- .1. From what I can tell the "fluffiness factor" of E3 makes it hard to be super consistent with but the +/- .25 grains you are talking about seems to be an extreme variation to me. That .5 grain spread is usually the range I will load when testing a new powder in .1grain increments. In my non expert opinion that deviation is too much. With E3 loading 9mm that could equate to well over 100fps difference which is pretty extreme and should be unnecessary. Probably not a safety issue unless you are pushing it and trying to load something at the edge of what is safe but its still unnecessary. When I test loaded E3 with 9m I would average 1083fps at 3.5gr and 1145fps at 3.8gr. Thats about 63fps for .3gr using 124gr Coated RN bullets. I recommend you chronic a large batch and see what you are dealing with in the gun. I also notice that certain settings on my powder system would produce more consistent results with E3 than others. I think there are sweet spots in adjustment based on the size of E3 that lend themselves to more consistency then others. For example, trying to get 3.5gr might produce a +/- .08gr deviation but trying to get 3.6gr would be more consistent at +/- .03gr. I'm not sure why that is but suspect it to be related to the flat disc shape of the powder filling certain spaces more efficiently than others. What scale are you using to determine that variation and has it been calibrated? Is the humidity consistent in the room you are reloading in? I noticed that E3 likes to stick to the plastic hopper more in low humidity/high static environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12glocks Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As long as your not near the edge I would not worry but .4 grains is a lot. I would start getting nervous about .2 grains. It must be the propellant. I have used the Lee Auto Disk and it was more accurate for me. I was metering Power Pistol and Unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blankenhole Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My acceptable range is +/- .1gr. What you are getting is a huge difference IMO. I don't have any experience with e3, but if it is a flake powder then that could be why. In my experience flake powders at lower charges are harder to control. I usually try keep the hopper full and take the powder baffle out with those types of powder. Another member spoke of rigging up the hopper to have something constantly vibrate attached to it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thanks for the feedback. I have had very good luck with the auto disk using Trail Boss for my revolver loads. I think there may be something not right with my powder drop but I'm not sure what it may be. I've had it lock in the position where the disc hole is over the die hole. Normally giving it a little tap allows the spring to pull it back into position. e3 is the first flake powder I've tried to load and like everything else it comes with its own learning curve. It's obvious something is not right with my setup so I'll double check everything and try again. I'll post a follow up after I've had a chance to check things out. It's good to know that getting consistent charges is possible with e3 I just need to work the kinks out of my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 How's the velocity and accuracy of the rounds that vary from 2.8 - 3.2 grains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 How's the velocity and accuracy of the rounds that vary from 2.8 - 3.2 grains? I don't know yet. I haven't shot any. I plan to shoot some either tomorrow or Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Just think how many more rounds you could load with that wasted powder,. I say wasted because you don't need it in thar case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 How's the velocity and accuracy? I haven't shot any. I plan to shoot Friday. Let us know - if they're accurate, I wouldn't worry too much about it, assuming the velocity doesn't vary too much, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Let us know - if they're accurate, I wouldn't worry too much about it, assuming the velocity doesn't vary too much, either. Will do. It will be tomorrow. I have 100 rounds loaded so I'll chrono some in my M&P and some from my son's Para. Then I'll see what kind of groups I can get with these loads. If they work okay then I'll load a bunch of them tomorrow night for the all steel match on Saturday we're shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman00 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've never used E3 but in my case with using Bluedot (big flaky powder) through a Lyman #55 meter, I saw inconistantances that rivaled yours - .4. to .5 grains. It scared me in the beginning but with BlueDot, a slower burning powder, I could barely tell the difference when shooting. When I changed to a smaller ball powder (Like IMR-PB) I saw very little inconsistancies and if so, they we +.1 to -1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 I loaded 400 rounds of .40 last night for my son and the charges were pretty consistent. My goal was 4.1 and I was seeing 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 and some 4.2's. For the 3.9 charges I just used my trickler and brought those up to 4.1. It seems the Lee auto disk works better with larger charges than it does with smaller ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Finally got a chance to get out and do some more chronograph runs with my latest loads: Para P16-40 using the 4.0 - 4.2 range loads: 998, 984, 1003, 994, 993 - 994 AVG 178 power factor S&W M&P 40 Pro (2.8 to 3.x range - probably should have shot more in hindsight): 774, 780, 762, 800, 806 - 784 AVG 141 power factor Accuracy was as good as I can shoot . FWIW I contacted RCBS about the chargemaster and e3 powder. Below is the reply I received: Zack, I have not tested with that powder but we have tested numerous other flake powders. You should not have any issues with throwing 2.7 grains of flake powders. If you do, just shoot us an email and we can change a parameter in the programming to make sure you hit the desired charge. Have a great day and enjoy your reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levellinebrad Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I have the same problems with my lee powder measure. E3 is the only powder I have that problem with. I have loaded clays down to 2.6gr very consistently but the e3 is awful trying ti throw anything below 4gr. I visually check each case as I insert the bullet and caught a few that were real light at 1.6gr when it was supposed to be 3.4gr. I am currently looking into switching to a hornady powder measure. I have heard that they are very consistent even with the flaky powder. I just hate spending $160 just to load 1 powder. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have the same problems with my lee powder measure. E3 is the only powder I have that problem with. Are you using the Lee auto disk or the perfect powder measure that you use off press? I spent most of the day out in the garage loading up rounds for the match this coming weekend and for the area 6 match. One thing I noticed about my auto disk system was the powder measure wasn't moving completely up and down like it should. I found that putting my hand on top and making sure it bottomed out between loads helped considerably. I eventually stopped loading and took it completely apart and cleaned it. It moves up and down freely now but I still don't trust it and continue to weigh every case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levellinebrad Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's the auto disk. I did take it apart and clean it after I loaded the first 30 cases and saw the variance. I started tapping the powder drop and that got me kinda consistent but still not what I am used to seeing from the auto disk. It is usually dead on the money with any other powder. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's the auto disk. I did take it apart and clean it after I loaded the first 30 cases and saw the variance. I started tapping the powder drop and that got me kinda consistent but still not what I am used to seeing from the auto disk. It is usually dead on the money with any other powder. Mine is dead on with other powders as well and very accurate with e3 in larger throws. I was having pretty good luck with it yesterday afternoon. When it would throw low I'd just use the separate powder trickler I have to bring the powder charge up to the charge I wanted. It's slow but I'm able to get the charges I want using that method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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