I tried the correction for cross dominance...

[mas]

...and it hurts like an SOB! Wow did I get a massive headache quick. Props to those that can do it, but boy did that screw me up for the rest of the night!

I've been hating the whole cross dominance thing as I firmly believe that it affects my consistency quite a bit....then I looked at a couple of books to review the sections on eye dominance and I got frustrated with the notion that one only has to move the gun an "inch" away from where one would normally shoot if they were (in my case) left hand, left eye dominant. But it's not an inch! It's more like several inches and I have to bend my wrist so much that recoil management (and therefore, consistency) suffers.

Well, I *may* have had a breakthrough....what I have been doing is trying to stick the gun in front of my right eye (left hand, right eye dominant), causing massive discomfort and a cramped feeling (not that kind of cramp). I closed my eyes, put the pistol out in front of me directly in my center line, opened my eyes, and somehow, magically, things were much much better. I don't believe I tilted or moved my head at all...somehow it just worked. Has anybody else found this to be the case or might I have been tilting my head to make this work? Gotta get in front of a mirror.....

[Bubber]

mas,

I shoot pistols right handed but my dominate eye is my left eye. I have always pointed my chin toward my right arm. It does not take much to align my left eye with the sights and I am good to go. It just took a little while when I was younger to get myself so that my chin and eye came to the same spot everytime. But it was something I did when I first started shooting handguns. I think you may be doing the samething now. And to me, there is nothing wrong with having a cross dominate eye.

[Mistral404]

I am like Bubber.

I move the gun more towards my left side, that way I try not to tilt my head. But the chin is the key. If I key my chin up [no pun intended] things go great. Drop my chin and my shots drop. It looks kind of funny sometimes but it works.

The biggest problem I have encountered is bringing the gun closer to my face. This does cause the wrist to bend alot but when I drop the elbow it seems to be a more natural feel.

[Jake Di Vita]

You got a massive head ache when you blurred one eye out?

That don't sound right to me.

[MasterLefty]

mas,

Did you tape the entire lens or just a small portion? I have tried the entire lense routine, and you get a massive headache.

I use one of the post-it note transparent flags. Place high on the lens, adjusting so that the only your sights are blurred. Your remaining vision is clear.

Kenny

[blackdragon]

Right handed, left eye dominate. I have never had any trouble shooting a handgun, and actually I think it helps me when I'm shooting weak hand. I seem to pick up my sights faster. I have never thought to change my eye dominance.

Ivan

[Eye Cutter]

same here! right handed and left eye dominant. i just bring the pistol up towards my left side to align with my dominant left eye. i now only close my right eye for long distance, tight and difficult shots.

[bountyhunter]

You got a massive head ache when you blurred one eye out?

That don't sound right to me.

I got the same thing when I tried to block my dominant eye and re-train to the other eye which has better vision (and can still focus on the front sight with full distance prescription glasses). I got headaches and my eyes would twitch and refuse to focus. Gave up, use the same dominant eye and live with the crappy vision.

[Rob Bagnato]

I am also right handed left eye dominant. Brian had posted something on this before about changing dominance. If I remember correctley he tried to change the dominance and decided that wasn't the solution. I also had this discussion with Frank Garcia his advise was the same. Just shoot the way you are. Avoid tilting your head bring the sights to your eye. If you are devolping cramps in your neck your stance is not neutral this will create more problems than you can imagine. Learn to keep both eyes open while shooting this will really help.

[Steve Moneypenny]

what ever happened to JUST SHOOT, not looking for magic break throughs, make sure you try a little piece of tape, it will take some getting used to... a TINY piece of tape that only obscures the sights shouldn't cause a problem.

from seeing you shoot there are a LOT better things to work on than eye dominance, you aren't having problems hitting where you aim, you shoot great groups, WHY change what is working!!?

[Steve Moneypenny]

I have thought about this, you seem to have a LOT of problems doing things on the "wrong" or left side.

Mag button, getting the correct holster, slide release, eye dominance!.

Why not simply go with gear on the right side, shoot your guns the way they were meant to be shot. all of the work you have done on the trigger finger of the left hand will be great when you shoot "weak hand"

You haven't spent a lot of time developing your draw and reload on the left side so going to the right might feel strange but you will get used to it rather quickly i'm sure.

[Kingman]

I don't know what to tell you to help. It seems alot of what I suggest you don't beleive. Then once it works you try to change it somewhat. I don't know how to help with this but from shooting with you it does not seem to be a problem.

You can shoot great groups and great hits. If you were missing alot I would agree that this is a problem.

I will say the same thing I always say. SLOW DOWN and get your hits everytime. You tore the hell out of the black on the targets this wknd you shot controlled. It takes time to reach that level of accuracy at a high rate of speed. You want to instantaneously pick up a gun and be able to shoot with people that have been shooting for years. Well it takes time to do that its not an overnight deal.

I have well known GM that is willing to come up and conduct a class if I can get 5 people to take it. It will cost $200 per person for the class. I don't know if their is much else I can really help you with at this point.

[Dalmas]

I have thought about this, you seem to have a LOT of problems doing things on the "wrong" or left side.

Mag button, getting the correct holster, slide release, eye dominance!.

Why not simply go with gear on the right side, shoot your guns the way they were meant to be shot. all of the work you have done on the trigger finger of the left hand will be great when you shoot "weak hand"

You haven't spent a lot of time developing your draw and reload on the left side so going to the right might feel strange but you will get used to it rather quickly i'm sure.

It might be me that misinterpret this post but there are such a thing as Left-handed people, imagine the world being lefty and follow your own advice - that would mean that everything was designed and meant to be operated with the left

hand- so pick up a pen and start writing you name with the left hand and se how easy it is to just switch...

It's not a coincidence that 70% of the people with 140+ IQ are lefties because they've always had to think different and invent new and improved ways of doing things compared to the lazier follow the stream of doing everything like

everybody else righties.

But again my foreign left dominant will to fight might have read this post in the wrong way and if so I apologize my rant.

[mcoliver]

Tape the lense not the eye so it won't hurt.

[mas]

Thanks for the input, all...it's a "feeling" thing mostly....bending my wrist to that degree is not comfortable and does make sight acquisition a little unnatural. Nothing that can't be attained through practice, but if there's a more natural way to do things, I definitely research it.

I only used a small piece of tape over the right eye.

Steve: not looking for anything "magical," but if you can do something that creates a more natural set of biomechanics, why wouldn't you? Also, I know there are "A LOT" of other things I could be working on (that's a condescending statement, btw), and this doesn't preclude me from practicing those other aspects as well...it's not mutually exclusive, you know?

Bob: I PM'd you...

[Protagonist]

Mas,

Regarding your initial comments about starting with your eyes closed, and then opening them and not having any eye-dominance problems, I don't believe that would serve you well in live-fire practice, or in a match.

Al

[Jake Di Vita]

Condescneding? He said you shoot great groups and you should focus on other things you aren't good at. I fail to see how that is condescending. All I've heard have been stories of how people are trying to help you and you not listening. Try taking the more experienced shooter's advice for once.

[mas]

Jake,

Yes, both Bob and Steve have helped me with quite a lot, and I don't mean it to be a "personal" attack on either when I come to this board to ask for help with my shooting. Bob and I are good friends and I value and respect his opinion. I respect Steve's as well; he's a great shooter. Neither Bob or Steve are cross dominant, so I thought I would try to elicit some opinions from people that are, to find out how they've resolved the issue, even if their opinions come to the same conclusion.

I understand it would be easy to experience me asking other people questions as some kind of "devaluing" of Bob and Steve's opinions, but I hope that they know that this is not where my questions come from. It seems to me that there have been a number of instances where I am innocently curious about the opinions of people other than Bob and Steve, only to feel jumped on a little bit for asking. I don't want or need to have my learning "sheltered" to just one perspective. What's wrong with asking? What does it threaten to ask of others perspectives?

I work as a psychologist, and I know that sometimes people can "hear" you and even believe you, but still need to go out into the world for additional confirmation or disconfirmation. In working with my clients, I have had that initial reaction of wanting to say: "geez, they came to the conclusion that I already drew for them." But it requires a certain level of understanding and maturity to remove my ego from that process and understand that sometimes that's what's necessary for someone's own learning and experiential realization. Why does a child touch a hot stove even though their mother tells them it will burn? They need to find out for themselves, check with other sources, and come to their own understanding.

Really, no offense intended....just wanting to learn from the forum members.

[Steve Moneypenny]

Dalmas, it is a little different than writing and honestly that statistic needs some proof with me, i can't believe that all the so called leftie's are smarter than all the so called righty's if you do the math with the percentages of people that are left handed only. not that are ambidexterous. sounds a little fishy to me. I did not mean that as a personal attack on a lefty, but someone who IS already righ t eye dominant to attempt to CHANGE dominance, AND get used to a gun that was never ment to be fired left handed ( a 1911 45) doesn't make a lot of sence to me, now a pencil, thats ambidexterous and i'm not good at it but with a little practice the left hand writing thing isn't hard.

Condescending. i wasn't condescending I did not stoop, nor did i lower myself, i spoke from my experience and skill level the way i see it, you shoot great points in a match, but your draws, reloads, shooting on the move, and positions setup need extensive training and work. now correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the group shooting and good index what is controlled by the group. .09 splits can't fix everything else.

[mas]

Nah, Steve, I'm not trying for faster splits....I'm trying for a more comfortable index which I hope will lead to greater consistency in all aspects of shooting. Those other things you mentioned are definitely important, and I've been spending time on those things actually. Hope you had the chance to read my above post.

[Steve Moneypenny]

now That was condescending ;-)

[mas]

Well, I certainly apologize for that. I reread it and if you're referring to the removal of "ego" from the understanding, I was talking about myself, but it really does come across sounding like I was talking about you. I guess I was hoping you'd hear the other part of that post. Hey, I'm aware that this thread is kind of getting off topic, so I am certainly open to talking with about this through other channels. Take care.

[Steve Moneypenny]

all read and duely understood and noted, no partial posts taken out of context

The underlying tone is that myself nor bob disapprove of you learning information elsewhere, the frustrating ascpect is the time spent structuring the technique on the weekend, by tuesday your either looking at a different gun, or have got this great "unique" idea of how to grip a handgun and changed everything, only to complain how it doesn't work later on.

Good luck with all of the problems you have, may u find unique and perfect solutions to them all..... see you at nationals!

edited for typographical erross only

[Duane Thomas]

if they were (in my case) left hand, left eye dominant.

I guess I don't understand the problem. You're not cross-dominant, that term means your master hand and master eye are on opposite sides of your body. You're left master hand/left master eye. Keep your head straight up and down, look at the sights with your left eye, and shoot. If you have a problem with seeing two sight pictures with both eyes open, squint the non-dominant eye. Meaning no offense, but I think you're making this more complicated than it really needs to be (he said in the most non-condescending fashion possible).

[mas]

hey Duane,

Sorry about that, I am actually cross dominant (left handed, right eyed dominant). Yeah, it's easy to overcomplicate these things...I'll try not to. The "condescending" statement I realize comes across sounding like I'm a pretty fragile guy or something....there's a lot more interpersonal context and history to that statement than there appears.

Steve,

I hear ya....I, too, have become annoyed with "switching" guns....I had hoped to switch from the glock, which is what I've been shooting over the past several months, to my 1911. I started working on it and realized that I can't shoot L10 given the financial requirements and that the only way I could afford to shoot would be to stay in production. That really is annoying, but for the next shooting season, that's what I'll be staying with. I trusted that you had very good reasons for switching from Glock to Beretta to whatever you're shooting now. I mean that sincerely. I'm sure you had very good reasons. I never questioned it. I just want you to hear that I had reasons too. Hey, take care and hope to speak with you elsewhere.