New Shooter needs help

[Captain204mike]

hello all i am new to the forums and also new to shooting a pistol

first thing is i am from WV and does anyone know of any pistol training classes at all coming up in or around the area i need help bad

also when dry firing do i need to put the magazine in and actually let the hammer hit the firing pin.

because i am flinching really bad, had a guy at the range pull a fast one on me and i thought he loaded my gun for me and told me to shoot when he didnt load it at all and i seen that i was jumping when i pulled the trigger, i would really like to get better at shooting because i have found that i love it a lot, but just getting frustrated now because i cant correct myself

any help at all would be greatly appreciated

THANKS

[Mistral404]

Welcome,

this is a great place to learn many things.

you can always do a search for all the topics that you will be inquiring about in the near future.

btw: check out Matt Burketts website. he offers some guidance on your immediate issue.

[Jeremiah]

In order to shoot a handgun effectively, for accuracy, it has to surprize you. That drill that the guy at the range done is just one of the extremely simple drills you can do to get over flinching. Dry fire is another extremely effective and simple drill that absolutely works. Just do it over and over again until you can do it without a quiver in the sights. Then, do it some more.

Flinching is really easy to start, but it's incredibly difficult to stop, but, it can be done with just a little bit of work. Hang in there, and work at it. It will go away if you make it go away, but if you let it hang around, it will get worse every time you pull the trigger. Make sure you practice correctly, and it will get better. If you practice sloppy, you are just practicing flinching, and it will engrain itself even deeper into your subconsious and not get better.

You'll get it, just keep at it, and keep reading this board.

[Jake Di Vita]

I disagree.

What your buddy did was diagnose either a flinch or just compensating for recoil. Compensating for recoil looks the same as a flinch when a round doesn't do off, but is a good thing as it happens AFTER the bullet leaves the barrel. The only way you can diagnose a flinch is by shooting. Have a buddy of yours watch yours eyes (make sure HE doesn't have a flinch first). If you are blinking, you are flinching.

Dry fire won't fix flinching.

[Turtle]

I agree with Jake.

What will help flinching is shooting the handgun with no concern for accuracy (other than hitting the backstop of course). Clear your mind of every pre-conceived idea of what you think should happen when you fire a handgun. Just grip the gun, slowly squeze the trigger, and watch with both eyes open. You're not looking at the sights, you're just watching the gun as it fires. You will start to become more aware of how the trigger feels as the gun fires and how the gun feels when it cycles (assuming you're shooting a semi-auto). It also may be helpful to start with an air gun or a rim fire pistol and then progress to higher powered cartridges later. After you do that, then you can do some group shooting. Focus clearly on the front sight, properly aligned with the rear notch, and slowly press the trigger untill the pistol fires. You're not trying to make the shot happen, you're letting it happen. You are watching the sight and trying to see the front sight bade lift out of the notch. The shot should almost surprise you but not quite, because you are too aware of how the trigger feels when the shot breaks.

Good luck and keep at it. Stick with the forum too, there is so much to learn from this group of shooters!

[Jake Di Vita]

I second what Turtle said.

When you cut loose a whole mag at the berm as quick as you can, it gets to the point where you can't flinch as fast as you can shoot. As soon as that happens, you will know it.

At that point you can diagnose whether you are flinching or not just from how it feels and what you remember seeing.

[rkgsmith]

Capt., Check out Storm Mountain Training Center. Good facility for some entry level pistol classes. Real good group of guys. Located in WV.

[shooter_rob]

You are on the right track Capt. just listen to what the experienced shooters reccomend and practice all you can. I also suggest that you develope a good load. Sometimes that can help. If the gun is kicking harder than it should you will react to it. I too am a hillbilly currently serving in the USAF stationed in NC but I am looking forward to retirement back to the hills in about 3 years. Feel free to drop me a line if I can ever help you. Shooter_rob@yahoo.com. Good luck and keep shooting.

DvC...

[9x23]

Capt. Mike,

Here's something I used years ago to cure flinch plus teach me visual patience. I recently had to go back to it to cure another problem that I'll elaborate on later. Maybe it will be of some use to you. I took a 10 inch steel plate and suspended it from 2 chains. Started with gun on target and fired 2 shots. (Double tap) You can't hit the second shot if you flinch or don't have visual patience. The plate will swing back. You have to see it to hit it. Work it up to a bill drill. (6 rapid shots) Recently I realized I was not seeing my shots hitting the targets on speed shoots and field courses. I assumed I had developed a flinch, so I went back to this drill. I immediately realized it wasn't a flinch, but that I had in fact lost my visual patience. My problem was on multiple targets. I would put the gun on target then move my eyes on to the next target while pulling the trigger on the previous target. My eyes were ahead of my gun. I feel this came from being lazy in practice. I use steel IPSC/USPSA targets on my backyard range. The range stays set up all the time, so I just walk up and run speed shoots aka ElPresidente's and such. It makes it easy for the eyes to get ahead of you there. Bill drills will help, but you might not see all 6 shots when you are really cranking them out. The hanging plate makes you have to see the shot to hit it at speed and give you audible feed back. You may not have experienced some of this yet, but look back on it after your shooting has developed later and maybe you'll find some use in it. I hope this might do you some good or some of the other folks here. I'd like to give something back to the forum because it's sure helped me many times.

Good luck and stay the course,

9x

Edited December 23, 2004 by 9x23

[short_round]

Also check out the thread below:

I'm so frustrated. Please help., Flinching.

Welcome to the forums!

[Kingman]

Lots of things in WV.

I am about 10 minutes from and have heard about Storm Mountain. I would not suggest them for training if you are interested in IPSC as they frown upon that sport.

I know you have been contacted by at least on person in WV that is a handgun trainer. Good luck.

[Steve Moneypenny]

PM sent.

glad to see another shooter from WV and another moving here soon, we badly need more ipsc shooters!!!

to answer the dry firing quesiton.. if you are shooting a conventional semi auto pistol you should be doing everything just like you would when you fire the gun.

I have never been to storm mountain, or seen their students, but tactical skills and competition skills are taught a lot differently in my experience. what stances/techniques do they advocate?

[Jayson@IGF]

If you can figure out what problems you have then you will be able to overcome them, and most of the time it is easier than you think, just takes a little work.

It's when you cant find out what is wrong, that you're screwed, and that doesnt last long eventually you'll work it out.

Even the best shooters find things they need to work on. Nobody says "Hey I'm perfect, there's no way to shoot better than this.."

[Newguy]

Dry-firing is a great way to develop gun good skills but it isn't very effective in getting rid of a flinch. If you dry fire enough you won't flinch, but as soon as you start live fire the sound and recoil will bring it back. I've heard other suggestions about going to a .22 to get rid of the flinch as then going back up to a major caliber. I've found that it makes the flinch worse since the recoil of the major caliber feels even more ferocious after shooting a .22 for a while.

A couple of questions. First, what kind of gun and ammo are you using? Second, are you doubling up on ear protection (a lot of flinch results from sound)?

Focusing on a flinch will lead nowhere since it's an almost involuntary response. Instead, focus on keeping your eyes open through recoil without blinking and don't worry about flinching. If your eyes are open and not blinking the flinch will fix itself. Besides, I've found I have more control over my eyes than my flinch.

Shooting at an empty berm is a good suggestion since you're not worrying about your hits, only watching the gun through recoil. Jutting your chin out or slightly opening your mouth also makes it a little harder to blink. I've even seen some shooters biting down on empty cases (presumably clean) to keep from blinking. Second, focus on pulling the trigger straight back. Press, feel the reset, and then press again.