Springfield 9mm Loaded Quality Problems anyone?

[Pathfinder1]

Hey... anybody out there own or has owned a Springfield Armory 9mm Loaded that's had quality/workmanship problems?

I bought a SA Loaded in 9mm from my local gun shop about 6 weeks ago (Oct 25/2013) and when it got there and we inspected it, the slide hung over the frame about a 16th of an inch and when you racked the slide back you could actually make it hang up on the disconnector and stay there (like it was a secondary slide stop...funny but not!). I was like, what the %#@%'s up with that! It's not a Wilson, but it's not exactly a Norinco either. Actually not fair to Norinco...anyway...

Out of the box the gun doesn't really seem to come up to their stated standards which they advertise the gun on there web site as, quote, "...improvements that used to be performed only by custom gunsmiths. These features include: Precision-fit forged frames, slides and barrels..." Really?! This gun must of been assembled by a Mariachi Band. I couldn't believe somebody would assemble this, look at it, and think...yeah that's good enough, and put it in the box for sale. I paid over $900 for the gun and sent it immediately to warranty work without a shot fired out of it and they've had it now for 4 weeks with no call back that it's ready for return yet

At least while it's there I'm having a Dawson FO installed and the ejector pinned. I heard after I bought it that they glue their ejectors in. I'm a little miffed about the whole situation, but if I get it back corrected and it passes the 25yard group test and operates reliably I guess I'll be appeased. I made a note to them I'll be using this for IPSC Single stack minor, so hopefully they get it that the pistol will be a work horse and not a "safe Queen". A crappy ass shooter isn't going to make it. BTW my Limited major is a SA XDM .40... a really terrific and reliable pistol. Love it.

Anyway, my question is, did I just get an odd ball out of the box, or is this indicative of the quality of the SA Loadeds and their advertising claims are bogus?

I'd really appreciate some feed back. Anyone else have problems with these like this?

I'll give you all a range update when I get it back in case anyone else is thinking of purchasing one of 'em. Again...maybe I just got an oddball and all will be fine when I get it back.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Pathfinder1

[bountyhunter]

As I have said when anybody asks about buying 1911's... there are really two kinds: mass made and fitted. The mass made guns from Kimber, SA, Para, Colt etc are cheaper and many of them are very good values because they give good service for the lower price. But a significant percentage of them have problems. So you make the choice and pay the money.

To be fair, fitted guns like SVI, STI, Wilson, Baer and the like sometimes can have problems but in my experience it's a lot less likely and they break their necks to fix them when they do.

My gripes with guns that have problems:

1) It's typically expensive and time consuming to send them back.

2) I am sending them back to the same fools who screwed the gun up in the first place.

Just my two cents.

Edited December 4, 2013 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

This gun must of been assembled by a Mariachi Band. I couldn't believe somebody would assemble this, look at it, and think...yeah that's good enough, and put it in the box for sale.

IMHO: most of the mass makers got rid of the gunsmiths years back. CNC machines supposedly make parts precisely enough that monkeys can throw them together without gunsmith fitting. As you discovered, no keen or discerning eye would have let that go... and none did. Just a min wage worker with a quota to meet.

And I am not just talking about SA, the last new smith wesson I bought will be the last gun I ever buy from them.

Gunmakers have a new QA philosophy: give everybody a lifetime warranty, use your customers to find the dogs and you don't need gunsmiths any more.

[rhett45acp]

I have a fleet of SpringField SS Loaded models. One in 9mm, the rest in .45. They have been spectacular. The only problem I have ever had was with one of the front sights. It was a Dawson installed by SA, it left the gun and stage during a stage. Called SA, shipped the slide to them, about a week later had the slide back in a cool new plastic shipping box. All is well.

[Pathfinder1]

This gun must of been assembled by a Mariachi Band. I couldn't believe somebody would assemble this, look at it, and think...yeah that's good enough, and put it in the box for sale.

IMHO: most of the mass makers got rid of the gunsmiths years back. CNC machines supposedly make parts precisely enough that monkeys can throw them together without gunsmith fitting. As you discovered, no keen or discerning eye would have let that go... and none did. Just a min wage worker with a quota to meet.

And I am not just talking about SA, the last new smith wesson I bought will be the last gun I ever buy from them.

Gunmakers have a new QA philosophy: give everybody a lifetime warranty, use your customers to find the dogs and you don't need gunsmiths any more.

Well glad to hear rhett45acp has had good luck with his Loadeds. Hopefully that will be the story when I get this back from the warranty work. As of today I haven't received a call from them (which they told me they'd do) telling me when they're shipping back and to confirm the repairs were done. I must admit dealing with their customer service is guite good. Hopefully the armorers are as well.

As to Bountyhunter's comments, I agree, with the advent of CNC machining these days, the assembly of a 1911 is not that big of a deal. It's not assembling the Space Shuttle for cryin' out loud.

Really the fault must lie in poor production management and final inspection, especially for something as grossly visually obvious as a slide hanging up 1sixteenth of and inch beyond the frame and the slide being able to stop and hang up on the disconnector, Oh and I forgot from when I first posted, the clocking on the extractor was turned to the left and it also stuck out from the slide. A 32nd+... but come on ...

So enough of my bitch session........ I'm still hoping my pistol was the exception and not the rule and will be fixed/properly. Hoping to hear some feedback from other Springfield Armory Loaded owners who had warranty problems...and if they were resolved the first time around. I haven't even had a chance to fire this thing yet after almost 6 weeks of ownership.

[ltdmstr]

Obviously CNC is capable of close tolerances. The problem is that most mass produced 1911s are not machined to close tolerances because that would require hand fitting which is labor-intensive and costly. Most are machined with big tolerances and when you stack all those together a lot of bad things can happen. That's why very few mass produced 1911s are anywhere close to optimal in terms of accuracy or reliability out of the box.

[Pathfinder1]

Good point ltdmstr and I get that, but I'm not talking "close" tolerances as you said...I'm talking basic tolerances, and I'm not new to 1911s, an example would be...one of my pistols in the stable is an RIA .45 Match (it's a tack driver too...honestly, reliable function too) made/assembled in the Phillipines and the basic fit is way superior to my particular Springfield Loaded. The fit in the back of the slide regarding the slide to frame and the extractor are absolutely flush...which BTW is really no great feat to do. I might add too that this RIA was about 3/5ths the cost of the Loaded, my point being it's not rocket science to do a basic reasonable proper assembly. I haven't even gotten to the shooting/reliable function part yet because as I said I have even had a chance to shoot it yet.

And again, the pistol may come back after all these weeks getting warranty work... being as Springfield advertises the gun as "...improvements that used to be performed only by custom gunsmiths. These features include: Precision-fit forged frames, slides and barrels..." . Comes down to if Springfield's going to "talk the talk" they better "walk the walk".

I bet if Rob Leatham (great guy and SA's main spokesman) saw this gun, there's know way he would say "yeah, this is an acceptable piece of work to release to the consumer", even at that price point.

The CEO Dennis Reese might want to take a walk through the plant and go to the production line to have a long talk with the Quality Control Guy at the end of the line and say " "so how's it look in the box and goin' out the door"? I honestly don't believe he would think it was acceptable for a Springfield product to go out that way.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Pathfinder1

[11B]

My extractor broke after 1000 rounds. That's the only problem I've had so far.

[Kyreb]

Proud owner of several SA 1911s including a 9mm loaded. Excellent service from all right out of the box.

[Pathfinder1]

Proud owner of several SA 1911s including a 9mm loaded. Excellent service from all right out of the box.

Good to hear that.

I'm supposed to get the gun back late today and I'm hoping all's been corrected now. If I get a chance I'll range test it tonight and get a report back to you guys

[Pathfinder1]

Well I received the pistol today and made it to the range.

For starters, the, "fixit warranty work that was done was first class.absolutely first class. The slide to frame fit is now superb, as is the extractor fit in the back of the slide i.e. they are both completely flush and smooth fit. The slide has been firmed up and lockup is fine. In addition, although I only had the pistol for one day before it was sent back for warranty work, I dont remember the trigger being near as smooth as it is now. It has a very smooth short travel and breaks crisply at 4.5 lbs, on the money. Im sure that was a little extra thrown in and its much appreciated. Kudos to the Springfield armorer who worked on my gun.

So there is some not so good news; I ran 150 factory rounds through it, and 50 of my 124g cast reloaded total 200 rounds. That being said, I did have some extraction problems. The 115g white box (100count) had maybe 4-6 FTE. The 147g White box (50 count) was pretty bad. Probably 40% of the time. Flat nosed bullets compared to the rounded 115gs. My 124g lead round nose Missouri cast seemed to work pretty well. Around the same FTE or less as the 115g White box.

Im thinking the extractor is not grabbing the case well enough. When the jam happens you can see clearly into the opened (but not locked back) ejection portand what you see is an empty case half way out of the chamber (stuck on its journey out) and a new bullet coming up from the magazine with its nose stuck (pushed up from the mag) under the case thats stuck half way out. So staring at this frozen situation many times today, I think for starters Im going to start by tuning the extractor by bending it in a little more. Im open to any ideas for regarding the situation. I love the gun now, I just have to rectify this extraction issue.

[Pathfinder1]

P.s. forgot.....I'm open to anyone that may have a better idea of why this may be occuring

[Jcj81]

I would just shoot it a little more until its broke in a little more and see if your problem fixes itself, my first time with my loaded 9mm three weeks ago had the same concern 3-4 times, last time out only once. Im shooting it tomorrow and ill see how it goes. All mine are 147gn-rn my reloads.

[bountyhunter]

P.s. forgot.....I'm open to anyone that may have a better idea of why this may be occuring

Most extractors these days are made of hard steel (typically MIM) but the point is the 1911 extractor was intended to be "spring steel" which is to say steel with a bit of flex.

The reason is it acts like a spring and applies a certain tension against the case rim and the edge of the breech face. hard steel extractors are hard to tension precisely and even when they are, the steel "takes a set" pretty soon and they lose tension.

Weigand makes a good set of inserts to check extractor tension using a trigger pull gauge. I set my extractor at between 15 and 20 ounces, YMMV. It sounds like yours is slipping past the rim.

Visually inspect to make sure the hook is nice and sharp. Chances are if it is, it's a tension problem.

The other thing to try is polishing the barrel throat to make the brass slide out easier. A lot of barrels have rotary milling edges in the throat that are not real smooth. IMHO, polishing the throat is standard procedure for any new 1911.

Edited December 11, 2013 by bountyhunter

[Pathfinder1]

P.s. forgot.....I'm open to anyone that may have a better idea of why this may be occuring

Visually inspect to make sure the hook is nice and sharp. Chances are if it is, it's a tension problem.

The other thing to try is polishing the barrel throat to make the brass slide out easier. A lot of barrels have rotary milling edges in the throat that are not real smooth. IMHO, polishing the throat is standard procedure for any new 1911.

Good point. I notice last night while field stripping that there was a little nick out of the extractor claw...very suspicious. I'm going to call Rob today at SA warranty to see if he can send me another extractor. Real steel (not MIM) would be nice.

Sorry my iPhone picture isn't enough to see the defect, but the nick is out of the top of the claw.

[Chris_C]

I wouldn't spend too much time on the extraction. If a little trial and error tuning doesn't fix it I'd try an Aftec.

[Pathfinder1]

I wouldn't spend too much time on the extraction. If a little trial and error tuning doesn't fix it I'd try an Aftec.

Yeah if all else fails. Just don't feel like spending $65 dollars until I have to. Thanks Chris

[JerryShoots]

I was in a shop about two weeks ago with my dad and noticed that a new TRP in the case had a clear miss in the checkering. I don't know how it could have been missed but it does worry me a little. I've always loved Springers and Have never shot one I didn't like (not counting any with improperly installed parts or modifications)

Kinda makes you wonder though if an "N" prefix Imbel gun from the 90's isn't a better made pistol than a current "NM" prefix gun. I haven't bought a Springer in the past year or so (really tight finances) and haven't dropped the cash on a new one in the last 5 years. So I have to be fair in saying that my concerns are not founded in first hand experience shooting them but in recent observations.

[Pathfinder1]

Here's what the problem looks like...just click on the picture

Edited December 14, 2013 by Pathfinder1

[jonb.]

Duplicate post

Edited December 14, 2013 by jonb.

[jonb.]

This is my SA loaded in .40 and here's my .02.

I have seen pictures of $2000 STIs with worse problems then your SA loaded, and I have seen RIA's run for 2 years of hard use with no major problems. So I would say any manufacturer is capable of letting a few "slip by". Either way you get what you pay for. I rarely see anyone gripe about their infinity's or their Nighthawk's on the other side of the spectrum.

Now my SA Loaded I bought used and it has seen some hard use at 6-7 matches and a couple practice sessions without fail. I will say it's fitted a little looser then my STI but I am actually a cootie hair more accurate with my Springer.

Edited December 14, 2013 by jonb.

[EEH]

Not trying to be an ass but why did you buy the gun in the first place? you knew you didn't like it,would not be satisfied ,and put yourself thru this misery..I shoot a lot and have shot with a lot a guys running SA,and have never seen them have a problem,,unless it was ammo related..I would not hesitate to buy one ....

Glad you got her repaired..

[Pathfinder1]

This is my SA loaded in .40 and here's my .02.

I have seen pictures of $2000 STIs with worse problems then your SA loaded, and I have seen RIA's run for 2 years of hard use with no major problems. So I would say any manufacturer is capable of letting a few "slip by". Either way you get what you pay for. I rarely see anyone gripe about their infinity's or their Nighthawk's on the other side of the spectrum.

Now my SA Loaded I bought used and it has seen some hard use at 6-7 matches and a couple practice sessions without fail. I will say it's fitted a little looser then my STI but I am actually a cootie hair more accurate with my Springer.

Gotta agree with a lot of what you're saying "get what you pay for" in some respects Jonb... to a point. But I see a lot of my IPSC gang @#!%ing around with their choked up Wilsons, STI's and the like too. Nothing against those brands, I love 'em, I'm just sayin'. On the other hand (and I've had some expensive pistols too), I have an RIA MATCH .45 that is as accurate as pistols many times the price...very trouble free too... and at $600 three years ago. Totally the truth...just sayin'. Keep in mind here we're talking 9mm 1911's. Much more finicky than the .45...eh Edited December 14, 2013 by Pathfinder1

[Pathfinder1]

Not trying to be an ass but why did you buy the gun in the first place? you knew you didn't like it,would not be satisfied ,and put yourself thru this misery..I shoot a lot and have shot with a lot a guys running SA,and have never seen them have a problem,,unless it was ammo related..I would not hesitate to buy one ....

Glad you got her repaired..

Excellent question EHH, and I will humbly reply (with head down) that it was an impulse buy. Kinda' like when you picked up that "sexy gal" at the club without really taking a good look at her until you got her home and...uh oh. Sorry if some of you can't relate...

Anyway, maybe the lights were low at the Local gun shop when I put down the money...

Edited December 15, 2013 by Pathfinder1

[ltdmstr]

Most parts on Springfield's are decent quality, but really need some cleanup or tuning to work properly. As for your extraction problem, I would start by checking the shape of the extractor hook. There should be contact with the case rim, but not the flat recess that's ahead of the rim. And the nose of the extractor should not be in contact with the case at all. Also there should be a bevel where the case feeds up. To check and/or set tension, you don't need a gauge. Just remove the slide and insert a round up against the breach face. There should be some resistance when you do this, but not a lot. Then hold the slide horizontal and see if the rounds stays in place. If it drops out, you need more tension. That should get you going.