kurtm Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Well darn, Pondaro will have to change his saying to 800 Nitro Express! Although that will tough because he is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Whereas SMM3G ... open to anyone. With a fast internet connection or a sponsor slot. Good point Mark! I heard the guy that won TO last year didn't get in the match. How cool would it be if the regional 3GN matches awarded slots to the division winners or maybe the top 3 or even top 10 in the bigger divisions for the next years match. That way if you shot well you don't have to worry about getting on the internet race next year. Heck what I'd club series winners or top finishers in amateur, lady, and/or semi pro got a reserved seat for next year??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 My whole point in this arguement is that it's impossible to draw a line in the sand. There are a bunch of good shooters such as yourself that choose not to participate in the Pro Series. There we a bunch of top semi professional pistol shooters that could do better than most at an amateur 3 gun event too. You simply can't have an amateur only event in a sport where like you said all but a handful are truly amateurs by definitions. Actually there is a way to draw a line or lines in the sand. It can be done at the end of a match at the stats shack by percentages. I will use AMU Team as an example - a team member finishes at 100% and the next shooter in the division has a score which is 90% then we can see a break. And so on.... And Mark, sorry about the key board! Just trying to make a dollar anyway I can to support the 3g addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbmd Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Which is free, the magazine or the Nationals? They are also a club series type entity. Whereas SMM3G, and RM3-G are open to anyone. Hey Kurt, when are you coming to shoot the FNH USA match??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 My whole point in this arguement is that it's impossible to draw a line in the sand. There are a bunch of good shooters such as yourself that choose not to participate in the Pro Series. There we a bunch of top semi professional pistol shooters that could do better than most at an amateur 3 gun event too. You simply can't have an amateur only event in a sport where like you said all but a handful are truly amateurs by definitions. Actually there is a way to draw a line or lines in the sand. It can be done at the end of a match at the stats shack by percentages. I will use AMU Team as an example - a team member finishes at 100% and the next shooter in the division has a score which is 90% then we can see a break. And so on.... And Mark, sorry about the key board! Just trying to make a dollar anyway I can to support the 3g addiction. That's how it was originally planned to be done. The problem that comes into play is determining where that cut off is in each division, what matches do you say that qualify and which ones don't? I shot the amateur match this year and never placed in the top 50% of any division last year at big matches with 200+ shooters, the exception of smaller 60-150 shooter matches that were USPSA matches where I took 2nd or 3rd. This year my best finishes put me at the top 25-35% at those same big matches...with the exception of the amateur match where I won. What determination would there be if I should be allowed to shoot the amateur match again? I've gotta admit, I don't see it being that clean cut. Part of why I really appreciated Kurt, Tim, and Trapr showing up to RO and help coach shooters when they technically could have shot the match.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Probably never Larry. Wrong time frame for me. I think Jesse is on to something only I would award it to the lowest finishes! Edited November 12, 2013 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) My whole point in this arguement is that it's impossible to draw a line in the sand. There are a bunch of good shooters such as yourself that choose not to participate in the Pro Series. There we a bunch of top semi professional pistol shooters that could do better than most at an amateur 3 gun event too. You simply can't have an amateur only event in a sport where like you said all but a handful are truly amateurs by definitions. Actually there is a way to draw a line or lines in the sand. It can be done at the end of a match at the stats shack by percentages. I will use AMU Team as an example - a team member finishes at 100% and the next shooter in the division has a score which is 90% then we can see a break. And so on.... And Mark, sorry about the key board! Just trying to make a dollar anyway I can to support the 3g addiction. Which match do you use? The AMU shot less majors than usual last year. Edited November 12, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Then you would be mistaken. If you are referring to Kalani, who won TO in 2013, he is in the Match for 2014 via his Sponsor, as he has been for the past few years. If you are referring to Taran, who won TO last year in 2012, he is also in the Match via his Sponsor, just like he has been for past years. As to the online registration system that was used for SMM3G 2014, I do not run that aspect of the Match. What I can say is that improvements will be made for 2015 based on the experience from this year, and from the input of our customers, whom we strive to provide the best possible service. And to Kurt's point, SMM3G does provide free entry to those that finish at the bottom. We are also looking at ways to further support the Juniors in the sport. Mick Whereas SMM3G ... open to anyone. With a fast internet connection or a sponsor slot. Good point Mark! I heard the guy that won TO last year didn't get in the match.How cool would it be if the regional 3GN matches awarded slots to the division winners or maybe the top 3 or even top 10 in the bigger divisions for the next years match. That way if you shot well you don't have to worry about getting on the internet race next year. Heck what I'd club series winners or top finishers in amateur, lady, and/or semi pro got a reserved seat for next year??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Then you would be mistaken. If you are referring to Kalani, who won TO in 2013, he is in the Match for 2014 via his Sponsor, as he has been for the past few years. I am not mistaken. I was referring to the 2013 winner who did not get into the match via online registration when he tried to sign up online like the majority of the shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Ahh Jesse is back to making friends I see! Mistaken or not! ........Bryan......this is " the other" kind of smiley ooppss there it goes again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Thread drift... us old farts can do that!Before outlaw was outlaw - 1981. Jesse, I bet you were just a twinkle in someones eyes at that time! Once upon a time the USPSA Sectional and Area pistol matches used to have killer prize tables tables but as time went on the bubble deflated, ie., sponsorship. There are many reasons, some small and some large, that influence the prize table. It's hard damn work to get a prize table and many times the donors are not rewarded enough. We have been very lucky to have some great sponsors in the 3G community. I can only hope that the demand to put prizes on the table is balanced with reward. Edited November 12, 2013 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'l just say this...competition between matches, styles, organizations, is good for us, and the sponsors. I don't want to see 3GN drive all the other matches out of business, but a few would be good. I don't want a one-size fits all match style nor a one organization control of the sport. That is but one reason why "outlaw" is good and why we vote with dollars. There are several majors that I would not pay a dime to shoot (for various reasons not allowed to be discussed on this forum) and others that I would pay more than the current fee to shoot (because they are that good). 3Gun Nation has benefited ALL of the matches whether people want to admit it or not. But now that 3GN is operating exclusively, some of the matches that previously were full as sell-outs might not be. There is more than one MD that feels like the Prom King just copied their homework and they did not even get so much as a wink for it. The other kicker is that the smaller matches have lost a significant amount of prize table stock to 3GN in one fell swoop. Is that good or bad? That is a question that might be answered in 2014. Im sure there will still be plenty of shooters like me that will prefer non-3GN matches and support the sponsors of those matches before the 3GN sponsors. Hopefully there's room for everyone, but with 3GN going exclusive I'll try harder to make sure I focus my support towards the sponsors of the matches I shoot, and make sure they know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Sponsored shooters were specifically requested not to sign up as they would simply be taking the spot from a non sponsored shooter, and their applications would be removed from the system and the spot given to the next person in line. So any of those individuals not getting in was a moot point, as they already had a spot. Despite that, we still had some Sponsored Shooters applying with everybody else.... Mick Then you would be mistaken. If you are referring to Kalani, who won TO in 2013, he is in the Match for 2014 via his Sponsor, as he has been for the past few years. I am not mistaken. I was referring to the 2013 winner who did not get into the match via online registration when he tried to sign up online like the majority of the shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 "Wow!!! You should really grow up Jesse. You've been doing this for long enough to know not to discuss things you didn't experience first hand." BAZINGA BABY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Wow cool poster... Tactical Timmys of 1981... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I read through this whole thread and even with the many excursions I am at a loss to understand the near hatred for the yet to be held 3GN regional matches. I love to shoot and I love to shoot 3gun. Some matches I like more than others and some just fall on dates that I cannot make. I do my best to support all the sponsors that support our sport, in all of its variations! So JT put the word"outlaw" in the threads title, so freeking what? Yea, to some of the veteran competitors it means one thing, to others it means something else. Ultimately it matters not. 3GN is putting on some regional matches. Don't like the idea of this Johnny come lately (3GN is in their 4th year) having their own stand alone everts??? Fine don't shoot them. SMM3G, RM3G, CMMG, FB3G, TX3G, FNH3G BRM3G were all new events at one time and some of them had some troubles along the way, but they are now loved by many. Why because they are outlaw? No, because they are good events that are generally well run, have good RO's, a knowledgeable MD, good stages and fair scoring. Based on that, if the 3GN regionals had good RO's, a seasoned MD, good stages, ran on time and scored the match fairly what would be the problem with shooting it? I KNOW Charles Sole knows how to run a great match, he does it every month. So maybe, just maybe we ought to wait and see how the 3GN regional in SC with Charles as the MD turns out...I for one plan to be there first hand to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPeel Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I thought that when I left competitive bass fishing that I'd left the drama and bitching behind. Guess I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I thought that when I left competitive bass fishing that I'd left the drama and bitching behind. Guess I was wrong. This really isn't that dramatic. My better half watches the wives of Beverly Hills and that my friend is drama... This is all about a new chapter in the world of 3 gun competitions. I call it growing pains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Thread drift... us old farts can do that! Before outlaw was outlaw - 1981. Jesse, I bet you were just a twinkle in someones eyes at that time! Once upon a time the USPSA Sectional and Area pistol matches used to have killer prize tables tables but as time went on the bubble deflated, ie., sponsorship. There are many reasons, some small and some large, that influence the prize table. It's hard damn work to get a prize table and many times the donors are not rewarded enough. We have been very lucky to have some great sponsors in the 3G community. I can only hope that the demand to put prizes on the table is balanced with reward. Warning- further thread drift.I know that if I was a sponsor of these matches I would feel like I wasn't getting much in the way of return on the items I was putting on the prize table since the same 10 guys are constantly getting rifles and then putting them up for sale the next day. We could settle all this pro shooter BS with random prize tables and trophies to the winners. I know that the guy who shoots at the back of the pack and wins a rifle is going to be worth a lot my positive PR to a sponsor than any of these "pros". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Pat I am happy to report that after re-reading all my oposts I never once denegrated 3GN nor it's upcoming matches. Never once insulted old guys, nor SASS, nor non profit matches and how they are structured, nor how "stupid" they are for buying stuf for their prize table, nor paying themselves anything. I am guilty of denegrating Mr.T........and for that I am truely........delighted?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 Pat I am happy to report that after re-reading all my oposts I never once denegrated 3GN nor it's upcoming matches. The fact that you posted in this thread denergratrd 3GN and it's upcoming matches. You're disdain for the organization along with everything and everyone that supports it is pretty obvious by the way you continue to troll this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 Sponsored shooters were specifically requested not to sign up as they would simply be taking the spot from a non sponsored shooter, and their applications would be removed from the system and the spot given to the next person in line. So any of those individuals not getting in was a moot point, as they already had a spot. Despite that, we still had some Sponsored Shooters applying with everybody else.... Mick Then you would be mistaken. If you are referring to Kalani, who won TO in 2013, he is in the Match for 2014 via his Sponsor, as he has been for the past few years.I am not mistaken. I was referring to the 2013 winner who did not get into the match via online registration when he tried to sign up online like the majority of the shooters. Well then I guess the competitor and his teammate didn't know one of us had a spot before hand or we wouldn't have wasted time trying to sign up. Sounds like we found something that maybe should be addressed in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) I know that if I was a sponsor of these matches I would feel like I wasn't getting much in the way of return on the items I was putting on the prize table since the same 10 guys are constantly getting rifles and then putting them up for sale the next day. We could settle all this pro shooter BS with random prize tables and trophies to the winners. I know that the guy who shoots at the back of the pack and wins a rifle is going to be worth a lot my positive PR to a sponsor than any of these "pros".Please help me understand how a sponsor get more PR from one competitor or another wins their rifle?I thought they sponsored matches for the advertising the match does for them like match booklets, stage banners, vendor tables, logos on websites, being mentioned at awards ceremony etc. You know the things a TV show, web TV show, magazine and huge 3 gun relates ensure do for you. Heck if I sell a gun I go and advertise for that sponsor even more on gun broker, forums and my Facebook than the guy that just sticks it in the safe. Edited November 13, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well reading sign up instructions, like reading the rules for a match, is an art form lost on some. Bye the Bye (old guy talk for BTW) I quite admire Pat and many of your 3GN brethren, I also have the utmost respect for any company that contributes to our/mine/your sport no matter what match they donate too. Which brings us back to you, Now what could it be? the utter arrogance or the condesending tone you use on almost anyone who dares disagree with you and your veiw of 3-gun, just like the two posts above. Oh well none of that touchy feely stuff for you and I....wait for it....wait for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I read through this whole thread and even with the many excursions I am at a loss to understand the near hatred for the yet to be held 3GN regional matches. I love to shoot and I love to shoot 3gun. Some matches I like more than others and some just fall on dates that I cannot make. I do my best to support all the sponsors that support our sport, in all of its variations! So JT put the word"outlaw" in the threads title, so freeking what? Yea, to some of the veteran competitors it means one thing, to others it means something else. Ultimately it matters not. 3GN is putting on some regional matches. Don't like the idea of this Johnny come lately (3GN is in their 4th year) having their own stand alone everts??? Fine don't shoot them. SMM3G, RM3G, CMMG, FB3G, TX3G, FNH3G BRM3G were all new events at one time and some of them had some troubles along the way, but they are now loved by many. Why because they are outlaw? No, because they are good events that are generally well run, have good RO's, a knowledgeable MD, good stages and fair scoring. Based on that, if the 3GN regionals had good RO's, a seasoned MD, good stages, ran on time and scored the match fairly what would be the problem with shooting it? I KNOW Charles Sole knows how to run a great match, he does it every month. So maybe, just maybe we ought to wait and see how the 3GN regional in SC with Charles as the MD turns out...I for one plan to be there first hand to find out. Very well put Pat. I think all have lost track of the goal of 3GN....grow the game....we have and will continue to grow the sport of 3 gun...1k plus club members in seven months 73 clubs some international in seven months...the regional are just another effort by 3GN...to GROW THE GAME we call 3 gun....Pat I look forward to seeing you and many other 3gunners in SC, Vegas, KY and TX. Regards Charles Sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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