problem: 38 super seating bullets

[solaritx]

As noted, having some problems with reloading some 38 super bullets.

New starline Super Comp brass

Load 124gr Montana Gold CMJ at 1.235 and they case gauge perfect.

New starline Super Comp brass

Load 124 gr Montana Gold JHP at 1.235 and the Don't case gauge. "stick" just before going all the way in.

Tried shorten to 1.225 and sometimes will case gauge, sometimes not, sticking about the same place in the case gauge

Tried taper crimp and Lee factory crimp and no change in problem.

The rounds that do not case gauge will barrel gauge correctly and do go into battery....but ????

My experience has been with low end 9mm, 38 special and 45 acp playing IDPA. Now that I am shooting (or going to shoot) an Open gun, I am loading to the higher ends to make the comp work and figure go slow and ask questions.

I got 2 cases of the JHP for this gun and the CMJ seem to work well, the JHP don't case gauge. The seating die seems a little inconsistent as well. Set it at 1.225 and after a few rounds seems to "work it's way back" to 1.229 - 1.30.

Dillon Carbide 38 ACP/38 Super dies on a Dillon 550.

Any ideas? I have been reloading 9mm, 38 special and .45 acp for 8 plus years and this has me scratching my head.

thanks

Garry N

[B_Seehawer]

What powder?

[lesm]

Probably the rather sharp shoulder on the JHP bullet (125 HAP's do it also) is hitting on the narrower bullet section of the case gauge. This happens on my case gauge also. However all of my 38 super guns ( 1911's and Tanfo's) will run fine with MG JHP's and HAP's loaded to 1.24 or 1.25. I think the inside geometry of the gauge is the problem and not your loaded rounds especially if they drop into your barrel OK.

[Justsomeguy]

That fact that you are getting some "overnight growth" means you are compressing your powder. Like B_Seehawer asked... What Powder??? Ball powders are less compressible than most flake powders, so if that is what you are using you are very near or over the maximum load density for that powder. I use a lot of MG 124 JHP's but mostly in 9X23 and 9X19 with very good results. It's not the bullet or the press, it's the powder and the amount you will have to concern yourself with.

[solaritx]

using 3N38. Working up load 9.6-10gr.

[mcbutler]

Using 3N38 10.0gr in MG JHP 124s at 1.250. Not all will seat in gauge but will chamber fine.

[Sarge]

That fact that you are getting some "overnight growth" means you are compressing your powder. Like B_Seehawer asked... What Powder??? Ball powders are less compressible than most flake powders, so if that is what you are using you are very near or over the maximum load density for that powder. I use a lot of MG 124 JHP's but mostly in 9X23 and 9X19 with very good results. It's not the bullet or the press, it's the powder and the amount you will have to concern yourself with.

I didn't read the OP as getting overnight growth. I thought he was saying the oal gets longer after a few rounds. To me this means he is measuring oal with probably an empty shell plate to get started then once the plate gets full the true oal setting reveals itself. Assuming it is a Dillon or similar style press?

[Bob DuBois]

First stage sizing die holds the bullet. Crimp only lets it chamber easier. I would try a Lee sizing die. Lee's sizing die will size tighter than other brands and closer to the extractor groove. Lee also has an excellent primer punch. I go the other way using a Lee sizing die, a Lee seating die and a Dillon crimp die. Tried the Lee U die in 38 super but it was too tight went to the standard die and it works out fine.

Sounds like a compressed load but I haven't had problems with that either using Lee standard carbide sizing die. Used on both my 550 and 650.

[solaritx]

I have not had the OAL increase "overnight" but rather set the depth and then after 2-10 rounds the OAL changes to a greater length.

Any help (as has come in) greatly appreciated.

Garry

[solaritx]

so basically two problems.

1) seating die "creep"

2) JHP Montana Gold will not case gauge.

Good info so far, thanks

Garry

[jabbermurph]

I have not had the OAL increase "overnight" but rather set the depth and then after 2-10 rounds the OAL changes to a greater length.

Any help (as has come in) greatly appreciated.

Garry

Have you checked both sides of the seating anvil to see which one best fits the JHP profile? It could be the bullets are not seating straight, causing a slight bulge keeping them from gauging

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[solaritx]

yep, tried both sides. Same result on both sides of the seating anvil. I kicked myself thinking I had missed the obvious.......but no change.

[Guest]

so basically two problems.

1) seating die "creep"

2) JHP Montana Gold will not case gauge.

Good info so far, thanks

Garry

I haven't experienced any issues with MG JHPs consistantly not gauging.

I load both the 124 and 115gr MG JHPs to 1.235-1.240" and they gauge in the EGW 7 and 50 hole gauges and a wilson single hole gauge just fine - except for the bulged rounds or rounds with fat rims, that shouldn't pass the gauge anyway.

You mentioned starline brass, a couple weeks ago in preperation for the Florida Sectional I reloaded 500 once fired starline cases with 115gr MG JHPs and they all gauged a-ok. Never had any problems with starline brass whatsoever, it is good stuff.

EGW gauges are generally tighter then most chambers (which I like).

Like lesm, I'm also thinking that it is a case gauge geometry issue.

Just wondering - what gauge you are using?

Edited November 5, 2013 by Bamboo

[solaritx]

older set of Dillon's. I have cleaned it, thinking it might be dirty, etc. All the round nose case gauge fine (new starline brass). It's the JHP. Thought the taper on the JHP might be the issue and if I start going down to 1.2 or below then the JHP case gauge consistantly but think that is to short with 3N38 and a "full" case of powder.

As stated before, maybe this is just a case gauge problem as they seem to chamber gauge fine. Just anal about making sure every round is checked before shooting and have always used the case gauge instead of the barrel. Reason I am picking everyone's brain. I am checking around to see if a friend has another case gauge to check to see if that might be the problem.

[noylj]

Remember, the barrel is the primary case gage. If they chamber, they are good.

The "problem" you have may be the difference in the location of the lede/start of rifling in your barrel and what the case gage represents. The case gage is almost certainly to minimum dimension.

Seating deeper until the round chambers in the case gage is one way.

Marking the case and bullet with Magic Marker, dropping in case gage, and rotating the round will show by scrape marks where the hang up is.

Personally, I have never owned a case gage and don't intend to.

If you seat deeper, re-work the load up.

If you are sweating very small COL changes, then do all seating with at least a case in the sizing die or tighten the shell plate a bit more.

[Sarge]

I have to ask. The round is not too long for the gauge and hitting the table underneath right?

[solaritx]

Sarge: Nope

Thanks to all. I guess I just need to barrel gauge instead of the case gauge. Plan on Mcbutler's suggestion and see where that gets me. Nothing wrong with being anal. Check, double check, ask and learn.

Thanks to all and if there are any other suggestions, still love to hear them.

[Guest]

A couple of thoughts:

Have a smith (or a buddy with the right tools) ream your gauge.

The wilson gauge I have was reamed to match the chamber of an open gun by the smith who built it. They supplied it with the open gun so you wouldn't have to remove the barrel to ammo check.

Or, get an EGW gauge, the 7 holer is about 20 bones.