Graham Smith Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm not convinced that the issue of the WiFi reconnecting has anything to do with the rooting process. The settings are all Nook OS screens and I'd be willing to bet that they aren't effected. I thought for a while that if you just got the router back in range then anyone using the Nook for anything would result in the WiFi reconnecting after a minute, but that's questionable. I just need to do more testing. And, it's possible that this has something to do with the router. There are a couple things mentioned that I'm going to try when I get a bit of time, hopefully later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't know about Graham, but I can answer that question from my own testing. 5, sometimes 10.... MINUTES! (Hitting the refresh "button" doesn't help.) Bill, you mislead me again. From what you are sayingshouting, it does discover devices, but that takes unacceptable long time (not really surprising if your devices are near the end of IP subnet and I will be looking at that). Totally different issue from not being to discover devices at all. Unless, of course, you wanted us all to chase ghosts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't know about Graham, but I can answer that question from my own testing. 5, sometimes 10.... MINUTES! (Hitting the refresh "button" doesn't help.) Bill, you mislead me again. From what you are sayingshouting, it does discover devices, but that takes unacceptable long time (not really surprising if your devices are near the end of IP subnet and I will be looking at that). Totally different issue from not being to discover devices at all. Unless, of course, you wanted us all to chase ghosts... No, he did not. From a previous post: "apple time capsule addr range is 192.168.0.101-150. This is the one where everything works." He did NOT say how long it takes for the Android devices to discover each other and the iOS device. I suggest you re-think your wording before this turns into another flamefest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 No, he did not. From a previous post: "apple time capsule addr range is 192.168.0.101-150. This is the one where everything works." He did NOT say how long it takes for the Android devices to discover each other and the iOS device. Heh, I am going to give up on guessing what else Bill did not say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm not convinced that the issue of the WiFi reconnecting has anything to do with the rooting process. The settings are all Nook OS screens and I'd be willing to bet that they aren't effected. ... I'm not, either, it's just something I thought I'd throw out. I don't know about Graham, but I can answer that question from my own testing. 5, sometimes 10.... MINUTES! (Hitting the refresh "button" doesn't help.) Bill, you misl--<SNIP> Ignored. (Rest easy, Chris.) But for the record, I'll go over it again. When connected to my airport extreme (time capsule) router, everyone can see everyone else on the sync screen, android, iOS, etc. The nooks sometimes need the refresh "button" poked once or twice after the spinning circle stops. And once I saw one of the nooks list another device and then list it again some seconds later. My ip addresses have already been previously listed. When connected to ANY other router, nooks CANNOT see anything without a sync code, and the spinning circle spins forever. I can wait 5 to 10 minutes, and still nothing appears in the list. When something takes THAT long to run, even if it were ultimately successful (which it's not!), as far as I'm concerned it's broken. iOS, however, continues to seek out and find nooks and other ios devices with no issues. And my nooks and ios devices fall off of and automatically pop back onto my wifi network with no manual action required. Sorry Graham, I've no ideas for you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Graham, Generally, my devices stay on the network. However, at both ranges, we have full-time, full-coverage WiFi for the duration of the match. I have had devices occasionally fall off, but it's very infrequent. And when they do, as I go by, I'll wait while until the scorer has finished, reach over their shoulder, tape the status bar, touch the check box, then touch it again, then touch the 'X' button. Generally takes less than 5 seconds, and this only happens once or twice a match from a number of syncs. I think the Android version in the NOOKs just isn't very aggressive about staying connected. Maybe there's something in the Android configuration I can tweak to make it try a little harder. I highly recommend getting one or two MikroTik routers. http://www.ispsupplies.com/categories/2GHz-CPE-AP-Bridge/MikroTik-RouterBOARD-RBGrooveA-2Hn-32.html http://www.ispsupplies.com/categories/2GHz-Omni-Antennas/WiFi-Boxes-Dual-Band-Mesh-Antenna-7db-N-Female.html When you have two (or more), you can configure them as a mesh network, which gives the best end-to-end coverage. At River Bend Gun Club, we have a couple PVC pipes driven into the ground, and at the start of the match, we put two routers up on 10' 1" conduit poles, which are dropped into the PVC pipes. An extension cord is run to the bay, where there's power. The power-supply and female end of the extension cord are in a Tupperware container that has cutouts for the extension cord and the cord going up to the Groove. I haven't checked what the average current draw is on these things, but if you're without power at the range, they can probably be run off a car or motorcycle battery for the match. (Just checked, the pull about 400ma at 12V, so a motorcycle battery would have no issue holding these up for a full day match). I have heard of some people that buy cheap, used routers, thrown OpenWRT on them, get a small solar panel and a 7A/12V battery (alarm battery, basically), drop them in a Home Despot bucket, and put them around the range, and leave them there. That could work, especially if you have a power switch somewhere that disconnects the battery from the router (but not the solar panel!) so that batteries can charge during the week, and then hold up for the duration of the match. Of course, those would work better in Texas than in Seattle Edited October 29, 2013 by jcwren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Let's talk versions... Bill, what version on your IOS and what on the Nook? How about AP vs Router? I'm running my ZyXel MWR102 (travel router) in AP mode. Shouldn't matter but you never know. As for Client Isolation, it's not a setting I am familiar with and my router doesn't have it. I just installed 1.5.10 on my iPod and I still have 1.1.11 on my Nooks. I discovered that the iPod cannot sync with another device unless I put it in Airplane mode. After that, if I put in the sync code for another device, it will sync and then remember the other device. It seems that after entering the sync code on the iPod it will remember the Nook for a time, but there is something that causes it to forget. I think that it has to do with the Nook going off the net and having to be reconnected. My WiFi issue with the Nooks is that once they get out of range of the router, it turns off the WiFi and you have to turn it back on again. I'm wondering if there is a setting in either the Nook or the android software that is responsible for this. Now, here is the freaky part. Sometimes the Nooks just seem to reconnect on their own. Sometimes they don't. I'm in the process of trying to see if there is a pattern. I think it has to do with how long they are out of touch. I've just installed 1.2.8 to see if things work better. So far, trying to use the Sync, the refresh just spins and spins and spins and spins... What is is supposed to be doing? Just answered my question and can see that others were referencing the new release or the beta. If I leave the Sync refresh spinning long enough, it does finally find other devices. Not sure what happens if the network connection is lost, but I'm going to find out. Edited October 29, 2013 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 1.5.10 iOS, and 1.2.5 on the nooks, probably going to upgrade all to 1.2.8 before my match sunday, based on the answer to this following question: Anybody out there actually used 1.2.8 to successfully score a match yet? Any gotchas? "Spins and spins and spins." Yep, that's what happens with me. As i said before, after 5 to 10 minutes, as far as I'm concerned, that's qualifies as broken. You know, I have to wonder about this. If the processor spent less time driving that spinning circle icon and more time scanning for devices, if it might not work better. I sometimes have a hard time backing out of the sync screen as well, as in hit the hidden "back" or hit the "back" icon in the status bar and wait, hit it again and then find the app trying to process 2 'back' operations and asking if you want to exit the program. We have one bay at South River that is about 100 yards away and around behind a berm. When they take the nook around the bend, I never hear from it again until later on in the day when sometimes, bizarrely, it pops up on the air by itself and I find myself pulling in 40-60 scores in one sync operation. I know no one has manually connected to the network (they wouldn't know how), therefore even after having been off the air for a long while, if my nooks get a whiff of the wifi network around my range, they'll connect automatically. "Client isolation" might be called something else on your router. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I've got to test this but it's possible that if I start the day by letting the master find all the stage devices then as long as the master remains on and in contact with the router, it will keep the stage devices listed. The other strange thing I have already noted is that there seems to be a great deal of inconsistency in some of this. Sometimes things seem to work one way and other times not. That usually means that there's some variables I'm not accounting for which should mean that if I keep at it I can figure this out. We'll see if I have the patience since I don't find the keying in of codes to be that big a deal. <time passes> Well, I just did a test and synced the master with two stage Nooks and then took them out of range so that they lost their signal and the master dropped them both off the list. Next test is to see what happens if I only take one of them out of range. <more time passes> Well, it seems as if it has to do with the master. If it goes to sleep, it drops the links regardless. More testing to follow because in the last test, the Nook that was taken out of range for several minutes reconnected when it came back in range. Very strange. Edited October 30, 2013 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 You're running all-nooks, right? I've got mine all set to the max 1hr sleep value. That is, I don't want them to goto sleep. Even though my setup has a screensaver that directs the most abjectly braindead zombie out there to 'press n to wake up', I don't even want them to have to deal with THAT! Is is possible your machines going to sleep have anything to do with it? I'm guessing from my experience probably not from my experience. I've got sleeping nooks here right now that if I wake one up, it'll happily find the wifi network. (Yep, just did!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Here is sort of a summary of what I have found: 1. If I move a Nook well away from the router for several minutes and bring it back, it will not reconnect unless I "poke it" (click the bar and tell it to reconnect). 2. If I move a Nook well away from the router for several minutes and let it go to sleep then bring it back, it will reconnect when I wake it up. Makes sense now that I think about it. 3. If I let the Master find all the Stage Nooks, it will keep them displayed as long as every Nook remains within range of the router and stays awake. If a Stage Nook goes to sleep, the Master loses it. If the Master goes to sleep, it loses them all. (which makes me wish there were a never sleep setting). As far as an IOS Master, I've been so busy trying to sort out this whole issue of Nooks losing their connection that I haven't spent that much time on it, but I would be very surprised if it behaved any differently. That's a test for another day. Edited October 30, 2013 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Items 1 and 2: Again, dunno. Mine don't go to sleep and mine reconnect by themselves. Item 3: 1hr is the max you can set the sleep value. It seems sufficient to keep stage nooks awake and should be enough for the master as well. My iOS master loses the entire list if it sleeps as well, or even if I leave the sync screen to go somewhere else in the match. But being the iOS version, it has no issues picking everything back up. I'll often jump out and back in specifically to refresh the list, usually after having tapped on a nook on the list that has dropped offline and not had a chance to fall off the list yet and I get a 'cannot find' message. That's when I refresh. So, auto-seek may work on the android version on REAL android devices, but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't work on nooks and isn't going to work anytime soon. Hence I'll still be using an iOS device as the master at all my matches and continue tapping in device codes when initially provisioning the nooks from the master just before shooting starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Items 1 and 2: Again, dunno. Mine don't go to sleep and mine reconnect by themselves. And that's the part I don't get. There is absolutely nothing I can do that will make a Nook automatically reconnect if gets out of range and then come back. Have they always behaved that way or is it only since you switched to the new(er) Nook rooting you are using? What router are you using at the range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Graham, what version of NOOK is this? If you go into the settings page, one of the selections is "About Your NOOK", and displays the version. It could be 1.0.1, 1.1.0, 1.2.0 or 1.2.1 (those are the versions I'm aware of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) The Nooks are 1.1.0 I seem to recall there were some problems rooting later versions. As far as I can tell, this comes down to a matter of there not being anything that would cause the Nook to check to see if there is anything to connect to. Turning it on or waking it up are clearly trigger events that activate a sequence of activities, one of which is a check to see if there is a WiFi signal. There is something on the interweb that seems to relate and there is a suggested fix which is to go into the router and assign IP addresses to the Nook MAC address rather than using DHCP. Certainly a simple enough thing to do. I'm also going to read more on Client Isolation and see if my router uses it under a different name. But everything is going to have to wait till the middle of Nov because I've got two big projects starting. Edited October 31, 2013 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 All of mine are running 1.1.0 (for now), although Bill's are running 1.2.1. I believe that 1.1.0 fixed some issues that 1.0.1 had regarding WiFi connectivity. If you'd like to play around with Root'n-Score-It (rooting so simple, even an IDPA shooternon-tech savvy person could do it!), you can upgrade yours to 1.2.1 w/ PractiScore 1.2.7 (1.2.8 is out, but I haven't upgraded the image yet). The website is still under development, so not all the pages have text. Since you were able to create the microSD card for the rooting process you're using now, you shouldn't be confounded by the missing instructions on how to create the microSD card. The rest is so simple, it's just pressing a couple buttons to acknowledge various steps. http://rootnscoreit.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 If you'd like to play around with Root'n-Score-It (rooting so simple, even an IDPA shooternon-tech savvy person could do it!), you can upgrade yours to 1.2.1 w/ PractiScore 1.2.7 (1.2.8 is out, but I haven't upgraded the image yet). I may take some time in Dec to look at that but I'm concerned about the 1.2.1 upgrade part since I'm not sure you can go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 You can go back. It's quite trivial to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) …I wouldn't call it "trivial", but it's relatively easy to do … now, thanks to all of Chris Wren's work. Seriously, rootnscoreit is the ONLY nook rooting system for practiscore that should even be considered for use now; it's THAT GOOD! What you're going to have to do I think is to reset a nook to factory state, which is crazy-easy to do now with rootnscoreit. (Yes, it can even do that; no more of this nonsense of power-on and hold down the button six to nine times and hope it works.) The problems with 1.2.1 were related to getting a full alpha keyboard for time entry instead of a numeric keypad. Plus 1.2.1 would crash some other rooting systems before they even got going. There's nothing wrong with 1.2.1 now, and it's installed as a part of rootnscoreit. And not running 1.2.1 could very well be your problem. (Though Chris says he's running 1.1.0 and his reconnect just fine.) Try this with an already-rooted nook. Create the rootnscoreit microsd card as available at http://rootnscoreit.com. (Specific instructions on creating the card here. Don't use anything else off this particular page except the card creation section.) Turn off your nook, insert the card, and turn it back on. See the 'starting up' splash screen. Wait for the next screen On the 'getting started' screen, press the bar/button marked 'next' On the 'select method' screen, press the 'advanced' bar/button On the 'advanced operations' screen, press the 'restore' bar/button On the 'restore' screen, press the 'factory' bar/button On the 'factory restore' screen, read the text and press the 'restore' bar/button On the 'factory restore ready' screen, press the 'exit' bar/button Eject the microsd card and watch the nook restart and restore to factory settings (I'm doing this to one of my own right now to follow along and document the procedure.) After the restore finishes, the nook will power up into the 'welcome to your all-new nook' setup screen. (This is also where you would start if you were rooting a brand new out-of-the-box nook.) With rootnscoreit, you no longer even have to run the B&N setup procedure. When it gets to the 'welcome' screen, turn the nook back off, insert the rootnscoreit card, and turn it back on. See the rootnscoreit splash screen. wait. On the 'getting started' screen, press the 'next' bar/button On the 'select method' screen, press the 'express' bar/button See the 'upgrade to 1.2.1 required' screen. Press the 'next' bar/button See the 'v1.2.1 upgrade info' screen. Read the text, then press the 'next' bar/button See the 'copying v1.2.1 upgrade' screen. wait for the copy to finish. (Even upgrading to 1.2.1 is crazy-easy under rootnscoreit.) On the same screen, when the copy finishes, a message will be displaying saying 'upgrade file copied to nook'. Press the 'exit' bar/button Eject the microsd card and wait for the 1.2.1 upgrade process to complete, at which point the nook will reboot and be back in the e-reader software. Now you're literally 5 minutes away from having a dedicated practiscore match scoring device ready to use. Power off the nook, insert the rootnscoreit microsd card again, and power on. See the rootnscoreit splash screen. Wait for the next screen. On the 'getting started' screen, press the 'next' bar/button On the 'select method' screen, press the 'express' bar/button On the 'install practiscore' screen, press the 'Install!' bar/button See the 'starting installation' screen. Wait. See the 'installation complete' screen. Press the 'next' bar/button See the 'final notes' screen. Read the text. Press the 'exit' bar/button Eject the rootnscoreit card and set it aside for the next nook. Watch the nook reboot. When you see the practiscore screensaver slide screen, do nothing. The nook will reboot again after a few seconds. When you see the practiscore screensaver slide screen the second time, slide the unlock control from the left to the right at the bottom of the screen. On the desktop screen, tap the 'settings' icon. Then tap 'time'. See if your timezone is selected. If not, tap 'select time zone' and tap on the desired timezone of your choice. You now hold in your hands a rooted and dedicated practiscore match scoring appliance, ready to use. You may want to do a couple of additional things; it's your choice. (Item 1 is strongly recommended.) Go into practiscore, tap 'sync', tap 'sync with other devices', and put in a meaningful device so that you'll be able to pick your nook out of a crowd when syncing scores with a master device. Setup dropbox on your nook. (Highly recommended.) For this, you'll need another microsd card (NOT your rootnscoreit card) that you can just install once and leave it. Dropbox is VERY useful for getting new releases of practiscore. Couple of usage notes: Press 'n' at any time to immediately get back to the desktop screen from anywhere Press and hold down 'n' at any time to get to the ReLaunch file manager that is built into this rooting system. To get back to your desktop from this, follow step 1. This rooting system even seems to fix the long outstanding problem of being able to have multiple copies of practiscore running at the same time. Now that's 32 documented steps and it may look like a lot, BUT IT ISN'T. (Written step-by-step instructions can make things look worse than they really are!) Rootnscoreit is hands down the easiest practiscore rooting system ANYONE has ever devised, and takes all of the propeller-head computer baloney out of the rooting process. (The most difficult part is creating the card itself!) I even recommend that NiftyBytes adopt Rootnscoreit as the official rooting system for nooks and add a link to it from their website. So go through all this (do it once and you'll see for yourself how simple this really is), and let's see if the resulting nook doesn't behave better for you. Edited November 2, 2013 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 And you actually skip the registration with B&N step completely now. After step 10, you can skip straight to step 1 of the next block. It used to be the only reason to register the NOOK was so you could do the upgrade to 1.2.1, but I found a way to work around that (That's part of the current Root'n-Score-It image that's on the website, so you don't need anything extra) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markEmark Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Hey Bill, Thanks for all the details above...I seem to not understand one step about the first step "Create the microSD card with the RASI image" On the Root'n-Score-It page are these instructions... "The process for creating the RASI microSD card varies, depending on what operating system you're using. Click on the link below for whichever operating system you're using. At the end of each of those pages is a link that will take you to the page with next steps in the Express install." When I click on the "Windows" link, all it says is: "Windows? How pedestrian." What am I missing here? Sometimes I am a little too simple minded but I really have no idea how to create the RASI image. I downloaded the .zip file for version 1.2.7 Opening it I see a disk image file called: RootnScoreIt_PS1.2.7 Do I just copy this to the microSD to create a bootable SD card image? Sorry for the dumb questions but I don't mess with tablets much at all. Thanks for any assistance you can offer. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 While the Root'n-Score-It microSD card image is complete and ready to go, the website is not. Alas, I just have not had the time I need to sit down and write instructions. HOWEVER! If you go here, http://www.tinymicros.com/wiki/NOOK_Simple_Touch_(NST)_Rooting_For_Practiscore#Build_The_Root_SD_Card, hope these instructions are enough to get you started. If that doesn't get you through it, drop me a PM or email, and we'll get you going. Maybe this weekend I can find some time to work on the web page. The goal really is a complete site that can help any level of user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markEmark Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Thanks JC, that looks like it might get me thought the process. While I am here, let me back up and confirm one basic assumption I made before I get in too deep... I'm assuming there is not a single table available that will easily run Practiscore AND be very usable in full sun (like at a typical USPSA match). I mean if I could find a reliable eInk type device that I could just download Practiscore and take off, I would strongly consider paying much more money; but I assume that is not an option. Thanks for the help, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Anybody out there actually used 1.2.8 to successfully score a match yet? Any gotchas? I'm sure you've seen this, but here is your answer: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=178777&p=2034363 Better wait for 1.2.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Thanks JC, that looks like it might get me thought the process. While I am here, let me back up and confirm one basic assumption I made before I get in too deep... I'm assuming there is not a single table available that will easily run Practiscore AND be very usable in full sun (like at a typical USPSA match). I mean if I could find a reliable eInk type device that I could just download Practiscore and take off, I would strongly consider paying much more money; but I assume that is not an option. Thanks for the help, Mark Mark, that's correct. e-Ink displays are not fast, and aren't suitable for a general purpose tablet. So far, there's nothing I've seen that meets the criteria of no need for rooting, sun-light readable, and battery lasts through a whole match. For me, I think an ideal tablet would be something with a 600MHz+ processor, 512MB+ of RAM, e-Ink, capacitive touch sensing, WiFi, USB, SD card slot, and run a stock 4.x Android release. Bluetooth wouldn't hurt, but don't really care. A fully charged battery should last for at least 3 days of usage at a match. And, of course, it should cost $50 Edited November 3, 2013 by jcwren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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