Budget to go to Practiscore

[mjl]

I am putting together a budget for next year to go to Practiscore. I want to be able to do 8 stages, and it will be used for USPSA, IDPA, 3-gun matches, club level and above. Going with a "robust" easy to configure and run system, what kind of budget do I need. I'd like to get all the same type of devices, so that may rule out trying to pick up used devices. Would picking up a the last generation of mini-ipads be the way to go? What kind of budget should I be thinking about?

[Rob Tompkins]

How many squads do you intend to run at the same time?

You'll need a device for each squad, some sort of wifi router or hotspot.

Nice to have are protective covers for the devices and a styles for each (fingers are slower).

[mjl]

I want enough to run 8 squads.

[wgnoyes]

That's assuming the devices roam with the squads, which I don't recommend. Devices should stay at the stages. That way, if for whatever reason you lose a stage-dedicated device during a match (dropped and stepped on, or it decides to lose it's mind and data - I've never seen the latter happen), well that's bad but you only lost that stage. If you lose a squad-dedicated device, however, then you've lost the entire match for that squad, and that to me is far worse.

We use B&N Nook Simple Touches on the stages, $79 from B&N, or maybe less from elsewhere. if you're thinking next year, wait until Black Friday (day after Thanksgiving) when everyone sells everything at a significant savings.

Then you need some sort of wireless router. I've been making do with an old Linksys WRT54G, but have also just bought one of these, which I saw in use at the GA State Championships:

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-MR3040-Wireless-Portable-Internal/dp/B0088PPFP4/ref=pd_sim_pc_1

or maybe this:

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-MR3020-Wireless-Portable-150Mpbs/dp/B006DEBXD0/ref=pd_sim_pc_1

The idea behind these is that you can wander the range with the master practiscore device and pull scores from the stage devices regardless of where they're located.

We run a 6-stage monthly USPSA match. I have a fleet of 10 nooks. I prep all 10 for the match and hand out 6, keeping the others in reserve for an emergency swap-out (hasn't happened yet).

We also have a master device, and that is always an apple iphone, ipad, or some other iOS device, simply because the ios version of practiscore has the ability to ALWAYS be able to reach out and find the android nooks without having to remember and tap in device codes.

The way we handle advance registration is through shootnscoreit.com, where I have my matches set to auto-close registration at 10pm the night before the match. I download the match into ezwinscore on a laptop, and bring that laptop to the range to register any walkups. Practiscore is a great scoring program, but ezws has it beat hands down for actually registering and squadding competitors. Once registration closes, I export the match to the master ios device, then from there provision the stage nooks, hand them out, and they go shoot.

We'll know more tomorrow after the Apple Presentation about whether current generation iPad mini's are going to stay around at a reduced price; they might not. If your club is rich, I should think ipad minis are the way to go; it worked for the nationals. You may (May? Definitely want to! The screen is glass!) want to enclose each one in an otterbox defender case.

http://www.amazon.com/OtterBox-Defender-Hybrid-Case-iPad/dp/B009WU5XUG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1382366720&sr=1-1&keywords=otterbox+defender+ipad+mini

So two different ways: (assuming MSRP)

10 NST's @ $79 each. (No cases needed; we spend more than $79 on timers and we don't buy cases for them!)

11 microsd cards, class 4, 2gb or larger, at around $5 each tops. (One for each device, one to use for the rooting software available at http://rootnscoreit.com)

1 apple ipad mini @ $329

Some sort of wireless router @ around $50 or so

Windows laptop which I'll assume you already have.

Or:

11 (10 stage ipads and 1 master) 16gb ipad minis @ $329 each (maybe less for 1st gen after tomorrow)

11 otterbox defender cases @ $39 each from amazon

some sort of wireless router @ around $50 or so

Windows laptop which I'll assume you already have.

Hope this helps.

[Too_Slow]

B&N has the NST's on sale this week for $59.00. I just got an ad for them.

Brian

[mjl]

Just what I was looking for. Thank you!

[racegun9]

It sounds like the NST is the best in the Bright Sunlight

as far as seeing the display.

Does anything else work good in the bright sunlight.

[wgnoyes]

Well there's no other e-ink reader of which I'm aware that can be rooted to run android apps, so NST's have no peers in that arena. The other thing about nooks is that you can't beat their battery life. Score a match on one all day long and you've still got way more than 50% battery charge left in the thing.

Everyone hollers about you can't read iPads or other led-backlit screens in sunlight, and you know what? If you just stand there letting the sun beat directly down on the screen while you're trying to look at it, well DUH! However, simply turn a bit or shadow the device with your body or (if your bays have them) stay under cover, and you'll do fine. Someone around here has also developed sunshade "clipboards" (for lack of a better term) for led-lit devices for this specific purpose. Get in contact with Ken Nelson; he just finished driving the B2B Nationals with a fleet of ipad minis.

The weak part about nooks is their their slow screen refresh rate can be annoying. We're using the hardware platform for something it was NEVER intended to do, after all, so there are definitely some performance tradeoffs. But not so much that it'll interfere with the conduct of any sort of decent sized match (so long as the master device is apple), and we use them around here to score 9-stage 250+ competitor state matches.

If you look at other "cheap" android tablets, be prepared to deal with substandard battery life. (An ipad with screen brightness turned up all the way won't make it through the day, either.) Also beware in the cheap android tablets that you make damn sure to check the specs of the screen to ensure it is a touch-capacitive screen. (Glass surface that you only need to touch, and not physically mash down through layers to do anything.) The "mash" screens may look all right indoors, but they milk over completely white outside and are completely unusable, owing to the multiple layers of film over the screen.

Edited October 22, 2013 by wgnoyes

[hitman]

I use an iPad to set up the match and sync the Nooks with it.

Your going to need 10 Nooks and a router of some type.

If you add an iPad your looking at about a grand.

[mjl]

Guys, thank you much. I feel confident moving our club forward. I will read the existing relative threads but I am sure there will more questions to follow,

[vluc]

We simply use another nook as the master device, don't need an ipad. Save money.

[wgnoyes]

Not recommended, unless you're absolutely sure your combination of router and nooks enables the tablets to all see each other without tapping in sync device codes, which otherwise would mean that at every match, you would have to make a paper list of your device names and corresponding sync codes and then have to painfully tap them in EVERY TIME you wanted to pull scores from the stages. Nope, one match worth of that and you'll be RUNNING to your local apple retailer to get an ios device. Now, if you find you CAN get the nooks to all see each other, that's great and another nook will do just fine, like you said. But otherwise, the extra cost is worth it. Doesn't have to be an iPad. An already-existing iphone or iPod touch will do just fine.

And in the apple refurb store (apple refurbs have the same 1 year warranty as a new device, plus new shell and new battery), you can pick up a 4th gen iPod touch 16gb for $179 or a 1st gen ipad mini 16gb for $249.

Edited October 23, 2013 by wgnoyes

[euxx]

Bill, you really must clarify who exactly is not recommending that. As far as I know it is solely your own opinion.

All in all, I don't believe an iOS device will see other devices on the same network if wifi router is configured to not show them. There is no magic in there.

[Graham Smith]

Not recommended, unless you're absolutely sure your combination of router and nooks enables the tablets to all see each other without tapping in sync device codes,

Well, let me just say that I've tried an iPad and an iPod and two different routers along with the NST's and as soon as the NST's get out of range of the wireless they loose their connection. After that, the only way to sync them to anything is to take the NST and manually reconnect it to the router. If your going to do that then putting in the sync codes isn't any bother.

[euxx]

Graham, you know you can tap the small battery icon on the top of NST screen to bring up quick wifi settings dialog where you can turn wifi off and then back on. That will reconnect NST device to wifi without exiting or switching from the Practiscore app.

[wgnoyes]

Bill, you really must clarify who exactly is not recommending that. As far as I know it is solely your own opinion.

All in all, I don't believe an iOS device will see other devices on the same network if wifi router is configured to not show them. There is no magic in there.

Must? No, I don't need to clarify at all. It was written under my name; unless I specify otherwise, everything I write is my own. That is true of everything everyone writes anywhere. To quote some other source, you give the name and use quotation marks. That's English 101.

i SAID "combination of ROUTER (emphasis added) and nooks". Please try to read more carefully. My nooks can see each when connected over my apple time capsule router. They CAN'T see one another on anything else I have. OBVIOUSLY therefore the variable is the router. Read what I said again. "If you find you CAN get the nooks to all see each other, that's great and another nook will do fine [as the master]". So the "magic" is in the router, as the router is the only variable in the equation.

[wgnoyes]

Graham, you know you can tap the small battery icon on the top of NST screen to bring up quick wifi settings dialog where you can turn wifi off and then back on. That will reconnect NST device to wifi without exiting or switching from the Practiscore app.

Well that depends on your rooting package. You actually tap on the wifi icon on the status bar.

[wgnoyes]

Not recommended, unless you're absolutely sure your combination of router and nooks enables the tablets to all see each other without tapping in sync device codes,

Well, let me just say that I've tried an iPad and an iPod and two different routers along with the NST's and as soon as the NST's get out of range of the wireless they loose their connection. After that, the only way to sync them to anything is to take the NST and manually reconnect it to the router. If your going to do that then putting in the sync codes isn't any bother.

Not us. We have nooks fall off of the wifi network and automatically connect again all day long.

[jhgtyre]

Some of you need to read this


Attitude
Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.
No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.
Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.
No trolling. No alternate accounts.

[euxx]

Graham, you know you can tap the small battery icon on the top of NST screen to bring up quick wifi settings dialog where you can turn wifi off and then back on. That will reconnect NST device to wifi without exiting or switching from the Practiscore app.

Well that depends on your rooting package. You actually tap on the wifi icon on the status bar.

You may have to confirm that for yourself. Besides, there is no wifi icon in there when wifi is disconnected...

[wgnoyes]

.... Besides, there is no wifi icon in there when wifi is disconnected...

Good point. Edited October 23, 2013 by wgnoyes

[Graham Smith]

Not us. We have nooks fall off of the wifi network and automatically connect again all day long.

Then you have done something that I can't make work no matter what. Yes, I can stop a squad and take the Nook and click a couple things and it will reconnect. But if I'm going to have to bother with that, then I'm going to also save $$$ and just use another NST as the master and type in the darn sync codes - it just isn't that hard.

[wgnoyes]

Strange. I haven't done anything weird at all of which I'm aware. I'm running JC Wren's rootnscoreit.com setup, which is based on the graphical nook manager rooting system, but even the previous one I used (don't remember who/what), I didn't have to manually re-add a dropped off nook back into the network. Now... the master IS an ios device; wonder if that has anything to do with it, as the ios version for a long time was the only one that could reach out and find them.

Edited October 23, 2013 by wgnoyes

[Steve_P]

Bill, the newest android versions can go out and find other devices. Doesn't work great with nooks (takes awhile to find devices), but works great on my Galaxy tablet.

[Graham Smith]

Now... the master IS an ios device; wonder if that has anything to do with it, as the ios version for a long time was the only one that could reach out and find them.

Not by me. I've tried this with both an iPod and an iPad and once the NST's lose the network connection, they don't show back up again. Even if I put in their sync code, they don't reconnect. And as far as I know I'm using the same Wren rooting you are.

Our season is over for the year and I'm going to spend some time working with this stuff over the weekend because I'd like to be able to go around a couple times during a match and pull in existing scores without having to jump through hoops.