Are Glocks really that difficult?

[pawe]

I've been using XDms for steel for a year now and decided to try out Glocks.

So I got me a Glock 34 with a 3.5# trigger just to have a consistent trigger pull like my Spartan 1911 and XDm 5.25 but for the love of god, I cannot hit a thing.

I've been shooting/practicing with my G34 once a week for 2 months now and still have not seen progress.

Is it just me or is there a certain hold for Glocks?

I dont want to sell my other guns just to be Glock exclusive.

[blairmckenzie1]

have you shot from a rest to see if your sights work for you?

[pawe]

Yes. I already shot from bench rest after I replaced my front sight with .100s and I did not have trouble hitting what I wanted to hit.

I tend to shoot low using the G34.

I wonder if it's the Glock grip angle or just me being used to shooting XDms that almost has the same grip as my 1911s.

[pawe]

Also, the G34 I got had the grip reduced and that's why it fits perfect in my hands so I dont think it's the grip size.

[carlosa]

Sounds to me like your timing is off..

What caliber are your xd and 1911?

Edited June 25, 2013 by carlosa

[Tuflehundon]

The grip angle on the Glock can take some getting used to. Many people shoot low with them.

[rooster]

I'd say start at a relatively easy range say 7 yds. You should be able to shoot a decent group at that range say around 1.5 inches. If you can't do that then get a glock shooter and let him try, if he can hold a decent group then its not the gun. If you shoot a group and its low or right or whatever adjust the sights so that you get to shoot to poa, poi. Now its just a matter of lots of practice. The glock trigger does take alot of practice. Just about every glock rear sight that I have ever looked including mine is pushed a little right to compensate for a left poi. Glock front sights for a 34 is I think supposed to be .245 mine is .220. There is a lot of variation in glocks poi. they can be on at 25 yards or 2 inches high. You didn't mention if you have the stock sights on the gun if you do get rid of them.

[dzhitshard]

A grip angle issue doesn't have anything to do with the ability to make a hit AFTER your sights are alligned on a target.

Grip angle can, and does for me, make a different on presentation & SPEED getting sights on target.

If your shots hit target when you're benched but not when you're offhand/freestyle: the problem is with your trigger press. You'll have to own up to that to get through your hump IMO.

[lugnut]

Sorry it's you.. unless your gun is fawked up. I think the grip angle is not an issue... maybe a little adjustment needed but it you are seeing your sights properly and pulling the trigger properly all should be good.

[MarkCO]

If your shots hit target when you're benched but not when you're offhand/freestyle: the problem is with your trigger press. You'll have to own up to that to get through your hump IMO.

Yep!

If you take rooster's advice, you are really doing yourself a dis-service as you will be on for just one distance and trigger speed. The trigger has to be pressed straight back and with the Glock, unless you have almost perfect technique, you will get what you have found. When that trigger finger is applying a force vector that is other than straight into the center of the trigger at the point of firing, you will have disrupted the sights. The gun IS hitting where you are aiming at the point of firing, just not where you were pointing it for much of the trigger take-up.

[GeraldMeharry]

Practice practice... I shoot low with my 1911 after shooting my glock for several months. I noticed my grip with my support hand is higher, 1911 I moved my hand lower.

[rooster]

Benching the gun takes away the human element for the most part. Now if I shoot and I have a good group but its left and down then I think that I will move my rear a little right and get a shorter front sight. My trigger press may not be perfect to the rear but if I always have that same press and I hit what I am aiming at then I'll live with it. In this game we are shooting from all sorts of positions, your heart is pumping like crazy, your running around I just can't maintain that perfect press. Start out at a short distance, then when your are hitting poa, then increase the distance till you get to whatever distance you want the gun sighted in. The closer shots will not be that far off from your desired long shots. You should still strive to get that straight back press, but if you are a little off and the gun is sighted for the way you shoot you will still hit your target. Now I should mention that this will only work if you are a little off, I mean if you are off by a large amount then defintlely you have to work on your trigger technique. Try dry firing while balancing a dime on the front sight. Pull the trigger and try to keep the dime from falling off. If you can do that then your pull is ok. If you are hitting low you might be pushing the gun down as you break the shot, try to just let the gun go off. Try the dummy round trick. Load a couple of dummies and have somebody mix them up in your mag, when the dummy is up and the gun goes click, you will know if you are pushing the gun down.

[dzhitshard]

"Just play your slice. . . use hold off. . . or zero to your technique flaw.

I agree with Mark, what a disservice. Especially being that I've never seen someone who's POI is off because of a technique flaw print tiny groups period.

[TerryT]

I found that a really strong grip helped compensate for a less than perfect trigger pull. In addition, have you dry-fired on a plain wall while testing various trigger finger positions and watching the sight movement? Many people do better with a Glock when the trigger is closer to their joint. Some do better "catching" the trigger/safety near the tip and essentially "hooking" the trigger back.

[pawe]

Sounds to me like your timing is off..

What caliber are your xd and 1911?

My Xdm, STI Trojan and Spartan are all 9mm all with 3.5# trigger jobs.

You mean timing with the trigger reset?

[pawe]

I'd say start at a relatively easy range say 7 yds. You should be able to shoot a decent group at that range say around 1.5 inches. If you can't do that then get a glock shooter and let him try, if he can hold a decent group then its not the gun. If you shoot a group and its low or right or whatever adjust the sights so that you get to shoot to poa, poi. Now its just a matter of lots of practice. The glock trigger does take alot of practice. Just about every glock rear sight that I have ever looked including mine is pushed a little right to compensate for a left poi. Glock front sights for a 34 is I think supposed to be .245 mine is .220. There is a lot of variation in glocks poi. they can be on at 25 yards or 2 inches high. You didn't mention if you have the stock sights on the gun if you do get rid of them.

My first "steel" with the G34 was a disaster. I went thru a whole magazine on a plate rack that was set, I would say 30 feet away.

I can see my shots hitting the bar a good 2 inches below the target.

My rear sights are black serrated and the front sight is a Sevigny .100

[MarkCO]

The closer the perpendicular to the trigger your trigger finger is at the point of break, the less the force vector will be off thus disrupting the POA.

[dzhitshard]

^{plate rack aside, what are you printing on paper with it at the same distance?}

[pawe]

A grip angle issue doesn't have anything to do with the ability to make a hit AFTER your sights are alligned on a target.

Grip angle can, and does for me, make a different on presentation & SPEED getting sights on target.

If your shots hit target when you're benched but not when you're offhand/freestyle: the problem is with your trigger press. You'll have to own up to that to get through your hump IMO.

I was always under the impression that it is all about the grip angle and that impacts my hold and aim of the gun.

And yes, I have a lot of bad habits and not so great fundamentals in shooting.

[pawe]

If your shots hit target when you're benched but not when you're offhand/freestyle: the problem is with your trigger press. You'll have to own up to that to get through your hump IMO.

Yep!

If you take rooster's advice, you are really doing yourself a dis-service as you will be on for just one distance and trigger speed. The trigger has to be pressed straight back and with the Glock, unless you have almost perfect technique, you will get what you have found. When that trigger finger is applying a force vector that is other than straight into the center of the trigger at the point of firing, you will have disrupted the sights. The gun IS hitting where you are aiming at the point of firing, just not where you were pointing it for much of the trigger take-up.

I guess I got spoiled with the short trigger job from my XDm and I am in the adjustment period of waiting to pull the Glock trigger all the way back before moving on to the next target.

So many things to learn, so little time.

[dzhitshard]

You were under the wrong impression then & undoubtedly a victom of gunrag author syndrome.

I have demonstrated 100 times that you can make solid hits holding the gun upside down crooked & sideways firing with the oposing thumb. IF your sights are aligned & the trigger press doesn't disturb their alignment with the target you will hit the target [with a mechanically zeroed gun]

Again, the "grip angle" only comes to play when your talking speed on follow up shots or initial presentation.

[pawe]

Benching the gun takes away the human element for the most part. Now if I shoot and I have a good group but its left and down then I think that I will move my rear a little right and get a shorter front sight. My trigger press may not be perfect to the rear but if I always have that same press and I hit what I am aiming at then I'll live with it. In this game we are shooting from all sorts of positions, your heart is pumping like crazy, your running around I just can't maintain that perfect press. Start out at a short distance, then when your are hitting poa, then increase the distance till you get to whatever distance you want the gun sighted in. The closer shots will not be that far off from your desired long shots. You should still strive to get that straight back press, but if you are a little off and the gun is sighted for the way you shoot you will still hit your target. Now I should mention that this will only work if you are a little off, I mean if you are off by a large amount then defintlely you have to work on your trigger technique. Try dry firing while balancing a dime on the front sight. Pull the trigger and try to keep the dime from falling off. If you can do that then your pull is ok. If you are hitting low you might be pushing the gun down as you break the shot, try to just let the gun go off. Try the dummy round trick. Load a couple of dummies and have somebody mix them up in your mag, when the dummy is up and the gun goes click, you will know if you are pushing the gun down.

I found that a really strong grip helped compensate for a less than perfect trigger pull. In addition, have you dry-fired on a plain wall while testing various trigger finger positions and watching the sight movement? Many people do better with a Glock when the trigger is closer to their joint. Some do better "catching" the trigger/safety near the tip and essentially "hooking" the trigger back.

I had a flinch issue before and still have it from time to time specially when I panic and I get tired.

I do the blank wall practice and I can see my sights go low sometimes but again, it may be because Im tired or focus was slipping.

I will try to see if the trigger closer to the joint technique will work but I dont want to get used to it coz it might alter my shots using my other guns.

I usually have the pad of my trigger finger a little closer to the tip.

[pawe]

^{plate rack aside, what are you printing on paper with it at the same distance?}

Low and slightly left with 3 inch group at 30 feet on paper shooting slow.

Low and still slightly left with 5 inch group at 30 feet on paper when a little faster.

[pawe]

Thank you guys for your insight. I was just so frustrated with my G34 that I tried to sell it because I admitted it's too late for me to learn a different gun.

I didn't really thought about these points you mentioned.

I may still try to sell it but will not be in a hurry to get rid of it specially when I see a little improvement on my part.

[MarkCO]

You may just have to play with it.

About 10 years ago, maybe more, Burkett was fascinated that I could switch from a Glock, to a 1911 to a 2011 and back again and maintain accuracy. I had learned that the initial contact point of my trigger finger needed to change from platform to platform. When I shoot a Glock, I push the trigger finger in pretty far and the initial take-up has my trigger finger sticking out the other side at about a 30 degree angle. But, when the shot breaks, the trigger finger is squared up. With a 1911/2011, my trigger finger is not into the trigger guard as far and is pretty much squared up at contact. Any time I pick up a new firearm, I like to dry fire it a few times to get the feel of the break and keeping my trigger finger squared up at the break of the shot. There are probably a lot of shooters who do this instinctively without even realizing that they are doing it.

This is exactly the reason people try to shorten the take-up on Glocks. It is also the reason why the technique of riding the trigger until it just resets works so well for many Glock shooters: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68931

If it is just too frustrating, sell it and move on. This is supposed to be fun and if you are all twisted up trying to learn a technique that does not work for you, switch out the gun. I am of the opinion that the guns are tools, and not everyone uses a 24 ounce framing hammer for everything. Get the tool that works best for you and makes you smile, no stress allowed!