Practiscore - Possible new feature

[Steve_P]

So we ran our 2nd match yesterday using practiscore on nooks. We also went without paper backup this month as we had no problems last month.

So far, I have been leaving the individual nooks with the stage, rather than keeping them with squads.

I had 1 issue near the end of the day.

one of the squads started entering the scores shot on stage 5 on the page for stage 1.

i think what happened is when getting ready to select their squad from the list, they backed out 1 menu too far and got to the stage selection screen. Then selected the wrong stage from the menu.

I was able to correct the scores (same target count between stages). Luckily it was only 1 squad and they noticed about halfway thru that the header of the screen read stage 1 instead of 5.

While I think this issue can be mostly prevented with training, i wanted to see if there was some other safeguard that could be implemented to help prevent this.

Possibly either a password or confirmation box that would prevent you from going back any further than the squad menu?

I will forward this question/request to the practiscore people, but I wanted to post here as well to see what other folks thought.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[wgnoyes]

Don't know. One way to avoid that is to ensure that none of your stages has the same round count.

[jcwren]

I'm a big believer in keeping the NOOK on the stage. While we sync regularly during a match, should the catastrophic happen, I'd rather lose a stage than all of squad's worth of scores.

While we run indoor weekly matches without paper back-up, I wouldn't dare run a larger match without it. Here's a link to the sheets we use: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x98l6fwrrj90g2x/PS%20Score%20Backup%20V2.pdf

If you print these, you can either print them double-sided, and you'll have some "old school" score sheets for those people that feel they just *have* to re-shoot the classifier they just tanked or if you're late getting the NOOKs down to the stages. Alternatively, print only the front side, which is the back-up sheet.

I realize this doesn't address the point you made in your note about perhaps having a feature that makes it more difficult to change to a different stage on the NOOK. Of course, on the old paper sheets, we had the same problem where a squad would score an entire stage in the wrong column, because bay 4 != stage 4.

Edited June 25, 2013 by jcwren

[ctay]

Here's a link to the sheets we use: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x98l6fwrrj90g2x/PS%20Score%20Backup%20V2.pdf

These are very handy - thank you!

[Graham Smith]

I'd never thought about this but after the Nooks are set up, would it be possible to go through and delete all the stages other than the one for that Nook?

[hitman]

I wouldn't see why you couldn't.

We have been using a simple paper backup but we are going to try our next match with no paperwork just the nooks.

[Jim Norman]

We have run Nooks now for several matches. We don't use paper back ups. Way back when we started with StageScore and Palms, I printed up and passed out paper sheets, I doubt more than 1 or 2 people filled them out. Without dedicated staff on a stage I don't think you'll see a large number filling out the sheets. Level 2 and 3 with dedicated staff, sure. What we really need is an inexpensive printer that will run all day on a small garden tractor battery. This would allow us to print out the scores as they are entered.

Cost needs to be under $50 each and they need to run regular paper when it is 115 degrees and raining.

[wgnoyes]

We have run Nooks now for several matches. We don't use paper back ups. Way back when we started with StageScore and Palms, I printed up and passed out paper sheets, I doubt more than 1 or 2 people filled them out. Without dedicated staff on a stage I don't think you'll see a large number filling out the sheets. Level 2 and 3 with dedicated staff, sure. What we really need is an inexpensive printer that will run all day on a small garden tractor battery. This would allow us to print out the scores as they are entered.

Cost needs to be under $50 each and they need to run regular paper when it is 115 degrees and raining.

Congratulations on joining the rest of us in the future. (No more scrounging around garage sales, ebay, and crookslist for 3rd and 4th hand literally-last-century scratched up tiny little Palms!)

My folks always fill out the backup scoresheets, and I've had to use them once or twice when they didn't save the score. (Programmatically less possible now. Plus classifier reshoots are still scored on paper.) Since each competitor has his own sheet like a paper match, they also continue to use the stack of sheets to establish and maintain their shooting order.

$50 and all those requirements? Yeah, you let us know when you find a printer like that from a domestic source.

[wgnoyes]

I wouldn't see why you couldn't.

We have been using a simple paper backup but we are going to try our next match with no paperwork just the nooks.

Do it if you want, but.... 1st Law of Systems Programming: Back it up before you screw with it.

[Graham Smith]

The system that seems to work for us is that we have one person with the Nook and another with the scoresheets. The person with the scoresheets takes care of shooter order, getting people ready, etc, the same as they always did. The person with the Nook sticks with the RO and records the scores then reads off the summary to the person with the scoresheets.

The scoresheets act both as a backup and as a way of ensuring that the scorekeeper put stuff in right. Errors such as times of 200 instead of 20 seconds have been caught as have scoring mistakes. Plus, this gives the shooter something to look at and sign.

[ErichF]

The problem in the OP is not limited to electronic scoring. I've been on plenty of squads where folks use the wrong score sheet for a stage. This is a failure of attention to detail, nothing to do with the fact it was electronic scoring.

[Steve_P]

Totally agree that this error is possible with any scoring method.

However, as a manufacturing engineer, i like to try and take the human decision making element out of the equation as much as possible.

Also, I'm sure attention to details like that can diminish at the end of a long match in the hot sun.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Jim Norman]

We have run Nooks now for several matches. We don't use paper back ups. Way back when we started with StageScore and Palms, I printed up and passed out paper sheets, I doubt more than 1 or 2 people filled them out. Without dedicated staff on a stage I don't think you'll see a large number filling out the sheets. Level 2 and 3 with dedicated staff, sure. What we really need is an inexpensive printer that will run all day on a small garden tractor battery. This would allow us to print out the scores as they are entered.

Cost needs to be under $50 each and they need to run regular paper when it is 115 degrees and raining.

Congratulations on joining the rest of us in the future. (No more scrounging around garage sales, ebay, and crookslist for 3rd and 4th hand literally-last-century scratched up tiny little Palms!)

My folks always fill out the backup scoresheets, and I've had to use them once or twice when they didn't save the score. (Programmatically less possible now. Plus classifier reshoots are still scored on paper.) Since each competitor has his own sheet like a paper match, they also continue to use the stack of sheets to establish and maintain their shooting order.

$50 and all those requirements? Yeah, you let us know when you find a printer like that from a domestic source.

OK, Bill, I'll go $60 each, but they have to work in theheat, cold and rain!

[wgnoyes]

In other words, it doesn't exist.

And even if one magically appeared tomorrow, I don't think PS has a print facility built in at all.

[jester121]

The system that seems to work for us is that we have one person with the Nook and another with the scoresheets. The person with the scoresheets takes care of shooter order, getting people ready, etc, the same as they always did. The person with the Nook sticks with the RO and records the scores then reads off the summary to the person with the scoresheets.

We found one person can easily do both, with legal sized clipboards turned sideways. The Nook is velcro'ed onto the clipboard opposite the clip end, and the squad's summary sheet is under the clip. Score directly into the Nook, and after hitting Review you just transcribe the scores onto the sheet. I usually write down the shooting order as soon as we arrive on the stage, so I can call out the on deck/in-the-hole names without manipulating the Nook.

[Tim/GA]

Don't know. One way to avoid that is to ensure that none of your stages has the same round count.

Seems like we glossed over the #1 way to deal with the OP's issue with wrong stage, Bill said it right at the start, for a local match I don't have any stages that have the same number rounds.

Actually, I find that it is best not to have the same number of paper targets since those are the ones that are going to get the score keepers attention on the first shooter in the squad. Overall number of rounds is not as obvious since the steel is only really messed with if there is a one still standing.

[wgnoyes]

I'd never thought about this but after the Nooks are set up, would it be possible to go through and delete all the stages other than the one for that Nook?

Huh. You can I suppose (never thought about it either) but it's also one more thing to do for each stage. Understand that after you've closed registration and the MD is giving the shooters' meeting, you're scrambling to sync the match to your nooks or whatever and everybody is standing around waiting on you and trying to grab up devices before you're ready and it's a pretty high pressure time, almost more so than trying to figure out who won what at the end of a major match. The idea of syncing the match to a stage nook, and then having to go into that nook and delete all the stages except the right one, and then doing it again for each subsequent stage... that's asking for a finger glitch and subsequent additional delays.

[Tim/GA]

That is the truth Bill! Especially since my competitors all have a squad of 0. They self squad on a paper at the sign in, so last thing before sync I am putting one shooter from each squad into that squad. Then they can pull the others in for the squad. We have the Nooks travel at ours.

[euxx]

I'd never thought about this but after the Nooks are set up, would it be possible to go through and delete all the stages other than the one for that Nook?

When you sync that nook with master, it will delete these stages there too, as well as any results for these stages.

[euxx]

...What we really need is an inexpensive printer that will run all day on a small garden tractor battery. This would allow us to print out the scores as they are entered.

Cost needs to be under $50 each and they need to run regular paper when it is 115 degrees and raining.

Not possible now. The cheapest setup I could find estimated at about $100. But will also require significant development in order to connect it to PractiScore. Things that would work out of the box start at $400.

Another working option is to get internet connection at the range and run regular jet printer hooked up to a PC laptop using Google cloud print.

[euxx]

wgnoyes, on 29 Jun 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

In other words, it doesn't exist.

And even if one magically appeared tomorrow, I don't think PS has a print facility built in at all.

Actually it does. E.g. you can print match results from Android version.

I can hook up printing score review in a snap. It's just there is nothing to print at now.

[wgnoyes]

That is the truth Bill! Especially since my competitors all have a squad of 0. They self squad on a paper at the sign in, so last thing before sync I am putting one shooter from each squad into that squad. Then they can pull the others in for the squad. We have the Nooks travel at ours.

CAPS, right? Try getting people to register ahead of time on shootnscoreit.com. We do that at South River, Cherokee, and Riverbend, and people can squad themselves when they register, and you can close off squads for stages you don't want people to start on in the interests of having enough help at the end to tear down. Last month we ended up with 46 at South River (56 registered ahead of time, but were scared away by the hint of rain; there wasn't any) and only 3 walkups. It REALLY speeds up registration for those people. Just print the list of pre-registers, then one of them walks up, you read off his particulars including squad and starting stage, give him his scoresheet, take his money, and send him on his way. Takes less than a minute per person. Walkups you register directly into ezws, and port the match to the master ios device and go from there.