shane8168 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Not sure if some of you remember a while back I reported a sudden FTF issue with my CZ Shadow. It was recommended that I go to a U die and thanks to Dave C. I got a U die and it solved most of my issues. I've taken to barrel testing each load before I go to my local matches just because I don't really trust it anymore and have found that maybe three out of every 150 or so still don't plunk like they should. The U die has definitely made my loads better as I'm getting better neck tension and that "Coke Bottle" effect on my loads now. Since I plunk test my bullets, I have 0 issues while shooting. But the 3/150 issue still bothers me... Should be 0/150 as far as I'm concerned. I pulled some of those offending bullets (Lead round Nose) and measured them to find that they are indeed 0.357" as I suspected, but when I measured the outside of the loaded bullet at the neck what I found is that some are larger that others and that is where I think they are hanging in the chamber (neck end, not base end). My question is now... (finally) do you think that some of the bullets are tilting enough in the loading process (Hornady LnL AP press using a Hornady Bullet Feed die with hornady Seat/crimp die to finish - no crimp) I try to hold the bullet upright when feeding into the final die but am sure (as the manufacturer of my bullets warned me about) that they are tilting a little when I let go and the seating die gets ahold of it. What do you think? If that is the cause of my 3/150 problem, what is the solution. I seem to remember that manufacturer mentioning a different type of seating die that is more suited to LRN bullets... I am thinking of Bayou Bullets in the future, will I experience the same issues with these? Thanks ahead of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbo76 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Measure the bad rounds at various points to see where the bulge is. Usually its towards the bottom or the bottom of the case has start ended to get oblong. (Open shooters making major with 9mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 What is your OAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane8168 Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 1.127" OAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 There are a couple of things to check here. First is to make sure that the OAL is not a problem and that the bullet nose is not prematurely engaging the rifling and preventing the round from going all the way into the chamber. The bullets might be going in the case at a slightly wonky angle, causing a minor bulge that is the cause of your problem. This is not unusual. A slightly tight chamber, which some barrels have, adds to this problem. You might benefit from a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This sizes down the loaded cartridge to dimensions that should (in theory) fit in all 9mm chambers. Also, 9mm brass thickness varies, and that might account for the differences you're seeing in the neck diameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Depending on the profile of the bullet, you may have to go shorter. I found some of the rounder profile bullets require a oal as short as 1.08 to chamber properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Depending on the profile of the bullet, you may have to go shorter. I found some of the rounder profile bullets require a oal as short as 1.08 to chamber properly. This. I'm not sure who's bullets you're using, but if they are the same profile as the Missouri Bullets 124/5 LRN, it will have to be very short to not contact the rifling. Potentially shorter than the 1.08 Yoshi listed. I wouldnt worry about the .357 diameter, it's more likely the Ogive/OAL combined with the short throated CZ that's causing you issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Send your barrel to Matt Cheely and have it throated. Sent my SPO1 FPB barrel up and it'll take 147gr flat point at 1.135" OAL now so that will eliminate the OAL prob all together. I sent mine on a Monday has it back on Saturday afternoon at first of month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Send your barrel to Matt Cheely and have it throated. Sent my SPO1 FPB barrel up and it'll take 147gr flat point at 1.135" OAL now so that will eliminate the OAL prob all together. I sent mine on a Monday has it back on Saturday afternoon at first of month. Throated my barrel as well, runs the 147 Montana CMJ and BBI Flat points at 1.135 like you say.. still have to run the 124LRN's below 1.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Send your barrel to Matt Cheely and have it throated. Sent my SPO1 FPB barrel up and it'll take 147gr flat point at 1.135" OAL now so that will eliminate the OAL prob all together. I sent mine on a Monday has it back on Saturday afternoon at first of month.Throated my barrel as well, runs the 147 Montana CMJ and BBI Flat points at 1.135 like you say.. still have to run the 124LRN's below 1.10 Wow really?! I can drop a 125 Valiant At 1.125" but it's pointy not a full round nose. I have some 147gr Xtreme RDN ill tinker with and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I have noticed that the CZ doesn't really like 147s that much or at least in my experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 My concern with throating is the possible affect it will have on accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Corey Estill shoot his all day with the same barrel work done and has no issue. There shouldn't be any accuracy issue with proper work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Mine shoots lights out with a good bullet, even after throating. The 124 LRN Ogive I had was very far forward. I had to run it at 1.10 for my 1911, much less for the CZ. The truncated cone is much more forgiving on OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProGunGuy Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Buy a lee FCD and install it. these are just the situations that it is designed to resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I think the op issue is with the profile of the bullet and too long of a oal. I have a U die and FCD but still had issues when loading round nose lead/moly bullets out to 1.11. Shortening it to 1.09 - 1.10 alleviated some of the feed issues but it wasn't until I loaded it to 1.08 did the feed problems go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane8168 Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 My issue with the OAL is that it is only happening with 3 out 150 rounds... These pretty consistent at the 1.127" mark and most plunk no problem. It seems that if this is the issue, then I would be having a LOT more issues with this than 3/150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Measure the oal of the 3 out of 150. Its possible your barrel will accept lead/moly RN bullets with a 1.127 oal. Maybe those 3 are 1.130? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane8168 Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Yoshi, glad you said that... As you were typing that I was out in the garage measuring. Hornady JHP, 1.074 - won't plunk 0,357" LRN, 1.123 - won't plunk 0.357" LRN, 1.127 - plunks just fine. I'm seeing a small bulge on some of the reject pile at the base of the bullet. I still think that the bulge is from a crooked bullet in the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Maybe a FCD is in your future... Though there are equal amounts of reloaders that swear by them and at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Shane, Sent you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 (edited) Yoshi, glad you said that... As you were typing that I was out in the garage measuring. Hornady JHP, 1.074 - won't plunk 0,357" LRN, 1.123 - won't plunk 0.357" LRN, 1.127 - plunks just fine. I'm seeing a small bulge on some of the reject pile at the base of the bullet. I still think that the bulge is from a crooked bullet in the case... Ogive's can vary slightly from one bullet to the next because not every mold hole is IDENTICAL to its siblings. So going just by OAL, especially where there is just a few thousandths difference might not tell you everything you need to know. It is up to you to determine WHERE the problem is. One test for OAL issues is to see if the round will rotate (spin) in the chamber after it has failed to seat properly. Then look for rubbing on the bullet nose. If the cartridge is out of round you might be able to feel that it won't wiggle when it fails to seat properly. Edited May 9, 2013 by superdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now