Shoot Through onto Popper

[ima45dv8]

Not a moot point. It was not hit, and therefore not subject to a calibration challenge, if the shot passed wholly through a NoShoot.

This isn't a to-ma-to/to-mah-to scenario.

[GuildSF4]

If you shoot through a paper target and hit a popper and it does not fall can you call for calibration?

The real question is do you want to risk it falling when they try a calibration shot, or engage it again without hitting the paper and see if it falls?

[Poppa Bear]

One thing to remember is that the calibration shot needs to come from the point closest to where the shot was attempted AND the full calibration zone available. Moving far enough to the side to avoid the NS or wall and therefore make the full zone available might be the difference between it staying up and going down.

The shooter cannot stop themselves unless they are willing to eat all the other misses and FTE's. Their only chance for a reshoot would be the RO calling stop. Since the steel did not fall, then we do not have a REF. Now if the shooter continues on through the course and from a legitimate spot hits the steel and it fails then they can call for the calibration.

A slight additional drift here though. What would the call be if the shot that penetrated the NS or wall and struck the steel was made from less than 23 feet away? The steel was not available from that location so how does the 23 foot rule apply here?

[GuildSF4]

A slight additional drift here though. What would the call be if the shot that penetrated the NS or wall and struck the steel was made from less than 23 feet away? The steel was not available from that location so how does the 23 foot rule apply here?

As stated by others poor stage design, and if this was the case a safety issue.

[Poppa Bear]

It very much poor stage design. BUT, do you still DQ the shooter for the bad design? Especially since you will likely need to toss the stage if it has been shot by a couple of squads already.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Poppa Bear

[Flexmoney]

First...weird question.

If you shoot through a paper target and hit a popper and it does not fall can you call for calibration?

It can;'t be a hit if it is a shoot-through, right? You can only calibrate a hit?

[GuildSF4]

It very much poor stage design. BUT, do you still DQ the shooter for the bad design? Especially since you will likely need to toss the stage if it has been shot by a couple of squads already.

I would think that this may apply:

2008 USPSA rulebook

10.4.1 A shot, which travels over a backstop, a berm or in any other direction, specified in the written stage briefing by the match organizers as being unsafe. Note that a competitor who legitimately fires a shot at a target, which then travels in an unsafe direction, will not be disqualified (the provisions of Section 2.3 may apply).

Edited to show what part of the rule I was referring to.

Edited February 18, 2013 by GuildSF4

[lcs]

It very much poor stage design. BUT, do you still DQ the shooter for the bad design? Especially since you will likely need to toss the stage if it has been shot by a couple of squads already.

No DQ!

RM would require the design to be changed, if you can't re shoot one or more competitors---stage is tossed.

It is what it is---You can not penetrate a target/no shoot for scoring.

[Nik Habicht]

One thing to remember is that the calibration shot needs to come from the point closest to where the shot was attempted AND the full calibration zone available. Moving far enough to the side to avoid the NS or wall and therefore make the full zone available might be the difference between it staying up and going down.

The shooter cannot stop themselves unless they are willing to eat all the other misses and FTE's. Their only chance for a reshoot would be the RO calling stop. Since the steel did not fall, then we do not have a REF. Now if the shooter continues on through the course and from a legitimate spot hits the steel and it fails then they can call for the calibration.

A slight additional drift here though. What would the call be if the shot that penetrated the NS or wall and struck the steel was made from less than 23 feet away? The steel was not available from that location so how does the 23 foot rule apply here?

No shoot -- toss the stage for safety reasons. Wall -- depends on construction and likelihood of wall deflecting any bouncebacks.....

[Poppa Bear]

Thanks Nik I never considered the impact of different types of wall construction.

[Nik Habicht]

The best RMs I know work like dogs before the match starts. By doing that, they ensure they have very little to do during the actual match.....

Things run smoothly, because they put in the effort during set-up and match staff walkthrough.

[lawboy]

The situation where I have seen this come into play, with a no shoot in front of a popper or plate, is when the steel target is considerably down range beyond the no shoot, which is stapled to the edge of a wall to protect the wall from being shoot. Somebody clips the no shoot on the wall and the bull continues another 10 yards or so down range and hits one of the plates on a rack, or a popper. This exact thing happened to me at a match last yr. Reshoot was the result. The no shoot is not right in front of the steel target it is just closer to the shooter than the steel is and is part of some other structure on the course of fire.