Nationals format

[Mistral404]

EricW,

First did you find any dancing girls in Quincy?

Did you find a bar with a decent mixed drink?

The bar at the mall had St. Pauli Girls at least!!

We left for STL for girls and drinks finally.

[Chriss Grube]

Ken,

You forgot about TJ, Chris Tilley, Matt, and a bunch more. The problem with the grandbagging is that it then makes the shooters that are shooting the level they should look like sandbaggers. When you have a GM or M getting spanked by an A or B right away the lower class guy is sandbagging. No I haven't put a proposal together because the rules and new classifiers have been coming out for a while. Hopefully it will solve some of the problems. I just don't want USPSA to be like the rest of the feel good about yourself world where everybody has to win a prize or a GM card. GM should be for those that trulely earn it and are the best of the best in heads up competition not just on paper.

[Nik Habicht]

If Nationals were scheduled the last week of September, we could combine the match with Octoberfest and shoot in funny green hats and lederhosen.

I might have that outfit hanging in my closet.....

.....from when I was three....

[kdj]

I might have that outfit hanging in my closet.....

Warn us before you say things like that ... there are some images that one just doesn't want in one's head

Kevin

[Nolan]

First off I want to sincerely thank everybody in USPSA that designed, built, worked, and perspired to produce this the best Nationals that I've ever shot! Now if only I had shot as well as you guys ran the match

As a shooter I thought the shooting schedule was great. Anybody that has any complaints should take a deep breath, back away from the caffeine and get a grip on reality. If PASA had gotten the same weather it has in the past the built in safety margin would have been a godsend. As it was just be thankful for the unhurried pace.

As a vendor I thought the shooting schedule was great. Anybody that has any complaints should try shooting and running a vendors table. As to the complaints about only 2 vendors showing up on Saturday, sorry man but my truck was dirty so I had to wash it! If anybody felt slighted I'm sorry my schedule wasn't perfect for you, but I did my best.

The stage designs this year were great. There was a good mix of speed (Hosers!) accuracy ($%@# No-Shoots!) movement and moving targets. I really enjoyed all of the stages (OK going prone on Get It Done sucked, but I dealt with it in my usual fashion by putting on even more clothing so I wouldn't get dirty!)

The staff was great and I really want to thank everybody for their patience with me setting up the HoserCam. Although one RO was about ready to call the bomb squad when he found my orange HoserCam box on the side of the range with the power switch turned ON.

I shot with Squad 32 and had a great time, fortunately there will NOT be a Candid Camera segment posted to HoserCam.com as I am pleading the 5th amendment

The scheduling on Saturday wasn't great, but I had planned on leaving Sunday morning anyway so it wasn't a problem for me.

The Prize table distribution looked far worse than it actually was. Part of the failure was clearly ours, the shooters. Our behaviour certainly didn't help the situation and then loudly complaining about it over the efforts of the poor guy trying to call the names certainly didn't help anymore than the pot shots taken here. Sniping after the fact is always easier than actually trying to help with the problem at the time. With a small bit of effort I was able to find my place on the results list, listen to the names ahead of mine on the results being called and going into the prize room on time, only to find that "GASP" an organized effort had everybody lined up in proper order. Names were checked then you were allowed in to pick your prize in a very small group. Thanks again guys I think you did a great job considering the circumstances. Yes it certainly could have been better, but I have also seen far worse.

Nolan

[gmshtr]

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[gmshtr]

Well, that was Colton's opinion of the Nationals schedule, and I might add, his first official post.

Now here's mine. Great stages (as usual), great RO's (as usual), and a great facility. I know that PASA park and USPSA have some "agreement," and we'll always be doomed to Quincy, IL for some sort of Nationals, but enduring 5 - one half days of not shooting in that town is agonizing.

Combining the divisions was not the way to go. I think having a 50 competitor Production Nationals is kind of a clue.

What's to say that we couldn't have a simple 14-18 stage Nationals held over a few two or three-day weekends for just Production & Revolver, Limited, L10 (Single stack), and Open. The best matches I've shot in the states were run by Area's with help from clubs over a weekend. Is an entire week necessary?

I would really love to shoot my Glock 17, Open gun, etc. rather than have to pick just one. I'm sure there were some folks that liked the format, but I didn't hear from any.

The prizes.....HMMM. I can't really comment on those without sounding like a person who shoots only for that reason, but lets just say that I didn't hear many satisfied customers, except for the ones who "found" the Surefire M4 foregrips.

I can't complain too much, though. I just got back from the NPSC (PPC Nats), and shot not great, and managed to bring home 3 guns, a case of ammo, a rifle case, 9 really nice trophies, $50, and a few other things. What a difference. They gave away 140 guns, many of which (mine included) were custom built firearms to under 500 shooters.

We could definitely learn some prize table tricks from the NPSC.

[Chriss Grube]

Damn might have to look into this PPC stuff. I think the stats from this year will show that when people are forced to pick one gun only that Open and Limited are still the place to be. There are a few diehards in the new divisions but for the most part it is people just playing around with something different.

[Ken Kwiat]

Chriss,

My point was that none of the additional folks, all great shooters by the way, scored a GM level score at this year's Natls, i.e., 95% or above. Do I think that in any way diminishes them? No. That's my point. It's that way at Natls pretty much every year -- we have one or two competitors who are performing at an incredibly high level where, at best, one or two others get within the 95% or better. Does that make all the remaining GMs grandbaggers? I don't think so.

If you use the PGA as a parallel to our sport, there are plenty of folks that earn their tour card (by competing in tour qualifying events) and the right to compete at the highest level of that sport. If they don't score within 95% of the winner of a major championship, which not many often do, does this diminish them in any way?

Our classification system is intended to give a general yardstick of ability to shoot classifiers -- one course of fire, under match conditions that don't mirror that of Natls. That's all it is, no more, no less. We have the means to correct for folks who are intentionally sandbagging through the Club Presidents, Section Coordinators, etc. I doubt very much that the high A and M finishers at Natls fit this bill but I trust the judgment of those who watch them week-in and week-out who have the means to correct the situation if warranted.

I echo Nolan's comments about Natls this year. I believe the one match, "shoot what you brought" caters better to the vast majority of USPSA shooters and makes it more economically plausible for how our USPSA dues/fees are spent, for our supporting sponsors/vendors, and for the vast majority of those who contribute to the sport.

IMHO as always. DVC.

Ken

[Patrick Sweeney]

Don't bother looking into PPC unless you are an LEO. At any level above club/range or league shoots, you have to be a sworn officer to compete. This is one of the few subjects that gets me in a frothing mood.

It is very good practice to learn to shoot accurately, and manage big time allotments, but there is no room "up" unless you have a badge.

[Sterling White]

Wow - sounds like you did well at the PPC NATs Phil. Curiousity was killing me so I did a little research on "where" the money comes from and found that they have some heavy hitters. "The NRA National Police Shooting Championship is made possible through funding from the National Rifle Association of America, Davidson's Law Enforcement Endowment, and the Law Enforcement Training Endowment of The NRA Foundation." per the web-site. Any insight or oppinion, from your perspective, that would benefit the USPSA prize table?

sw

[Chriss Grube]

Pat,

I have MASTERSHIELD so that isn't a problem.

[hopalong]

My Understanding is that in 2005 nats will be at PASA, in July so here is My .02 cents worth.

1 set up, 2 matches, match 1 Open, and Limited-10 start them on Saturday at 12:00 shoot half a day using half a day in the morning for registration and shooter meetings Shoot Sunday and Monday and Half a day Tuesday, awards that evening shoot offs Wednesday Morning F*&k the prize table, save the money, work on getting the Nationals to pay for themselves we are there for the shooting not the "prize table".

Match 2 Limited, Production, Revolver (same stages as Match 1) Wed morning Registration and shooter meetings Shoot half a day Wed, shoot Thursday and Friday half a day Saturday, Awards that evening. Shootoffs Sunday Morning go home (same thing about prize table) .

I know that this "schedule" does not include the (rainy day makup day) but here is the deal, if it does and some repairs, rebuild has to happen get the squads to help on their first stage of the day and they will all be rebuilt/repaired quickly.

and if there just has to be a prize table it can be done after the shoot offs as the R/O and Match staff would not have to be there and could get the next match started rolling.

and while I'm at it.....

What the H%&L kind of format was the shoot offs?????

16 Open 12 Limited, 4 L-10 8 production and 4 revolvers and NO Juniors unless they made it into the above numbers and the Ladies.

IF they plan on doing that again and not having to be any where else until late that evening this needs changed drasticly.

maybe this???

Open 16

Limited 16

Production 16

L-10 at least 8 maybe 12

Revolver at least 8 maybe 12

Ladies 8 in each division if available

ALL JUNIORS

What else are we going to do all day? twiddle our thumbs again?

Just my .25 cents (got to allow for growth and interest)

SAM KEEN