Nik Habicht Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 1347425614[/url]' post='1777842']1347421059[/url]' post='1777810']1347420645[/url]' post='1777806'] I don't personally see a half-cocked first shot to be making that much difference anyways. In the big picture it doesn't. With that said is any exposed hammer gun with out a decocker unsafe? What happens if you decocker notch gets rounded when you hit the lever? With a exposed hammer gun I control the hammer through the entire motion. Probably not a problem on Smith & Wesson 5900 series, as the decocking lever also shields the firing pin from hammer impact..... When considering rules changes such as these, please consider the impact not only on what you shoot, but on all other guns that fall into the category and are legal for the sport.... So the 5900 does have a safer way of decocking. If I think about it so does the beretta line but remember we have to think of all guns and not all guns have something else to stop the hammer other than a extra notch. Speaking of all guns getting impacted, currently we are talking about a very select few of people that shoot decocker guns as mentioned earlier. This thread was created by some confusion of the rule itself. If you simply had hammer fully down it would simplify things and still would only affect a select few that aren't doing it already. Seems silly for me to require shooters who bought "safer" guns with decockers, to bypass that safety feature..... Might be a liability problem for the org or the matches.... This isn't anything new..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What stops people from modifying a decocker gun to basically barely decock and be a single action gun with out a safety. I'm completely spit balling here as I'm not a gun smith but the principle is the same....I think. See the NROI ruling in post #1 Altering a factory installed decocker to bring the hammer to rest at less than a half cocked position is not allowed. ....and what happens when CZC makes a decocker gun that travels even less. You get to buy a new gun..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Decocker guns, at least CZs, will have a FPB I found out today so they will have a safety.[/color] Its no closer than a XD as being SAO it just has a exposed hammer instead of a striker. Some CZ have the FPB - not all. Technically almost all modern guns have some sort of FPB. What's your point again? Oh that's right, you wanted a SAO without an external safety...there's isn't one... HK P7. No FPB. No external safety. Follows definition of Single Action where pulling the trigger only releases the hammer/striker. And it's on the Production list. Pretty sure you can pull the trigger on a P7 all day long and the striker never releases...... ...unless you've already compressed and held the squeeze cocker in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 You get to buy a new gun..... There is that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Decocker guns, at least CZs, will have a FPB I found out today so they will have a safety.[/color] Its no closer than a XD as being SAO it just has a exposed hammer instead of a striker. Some CZ have the FPB - not all. Technically almost all modern guns have some sort of FPB. What's your point again? Oh that's right, you wanted a SAO without an external safety...there's isn't one... HK P7. No FPB. No external safety. Follows definition of Single Action where pulling the trigger only releases the hammer/striker. And it's on the Production list. Pretty sure you can pull the trigger on a P7 all day long and the striker never releases...... ...unless you've already compressed and held the squeeze cocker in.... Yup, exactly! But the P7 manual calls it a squeeze cocker, not a safety. The manual even highlights that there are no external safeties that need to be manipulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Decocker guns, at least CZs, will have a FPB I found out today so they will have a safety.[/color] Its no closer than a XD as being SAO it just has a exposed hammer instead of a striker. Some CZ have the FPB - not all. Technically almost all modern guns have some sort of FPB. What's your point again? Oh that's right, you wanted a SAO without an external safety...there's isn't one... HK P7. No FPB. No external safety. Follows definition of Single Action where pulling the trigger only releases the hammer/striker. And it's on the Production list. Pretty sure you can pull the trigger on a P7 all day long and the striker never releases...... ...unless you've already compressed and held the squeeze cocker in.... Yup, exactly! But the P7 manual calls it a squeeze cocker, not a safety. The manual even highlights that there are no external safeties that need to be manipulated. It's also not an SA, not a DA, not DAO, and not safe action...... It's unique. Different enough from single-action autos, that I can see it's place on the production list.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Slight thread drift. I had a shooter at GA State this weekend that wanted to start the stage with his H&K cocked and locked. I doubled checked to make sure he was shooting production and he confirmed he was. This was about his 5th stage of the match, so I assume he started C&L on the other 4 (and may have done the same on the stages after mine.) That is a whole other ball of wax there. I'm assuming he made ready cocked and locked? If so you could have asked if he did that on the other stages. If the answer was yes welcome him to open and when the RM arrives have him ask the other ROs why they allowed it? Continuing thread drift .... I don't think a bump to open is the right call. It is up to the RO to make sure the shooter meets the ready condition before allowing them to start the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Slight thread drift. I had a shooter at GA State this weekend that wanted to start the stage with his H&K cocked and locked. I doubled checked to make sure he was shooting production and he confirmed he was. This was about his 5th stage of the match, so I assume he started C&L on the other 4 (and may have done the same on the stages after mine.) That is a whole other ball of wax there. I'm assuming he made ready cocked and locked? If so you could have asked if he did that on the other stages. If the answer was yes welcome him to open and when the RM arrives have him ask the other ROs why they allowed it? Continuing thread drift .... I don't think a bump to open is the right call. It is up to the RO to make sure the shooter meets the ready condition before allowing them to start the stage. Yup -- but if it's not the shooter's stage, the question needs to be asked. If the answer is "yes, I've started that way," then it's time to call the RM..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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