Open gun for shooter development

[smokshwn]

I have been shooting seriously (both USPSA and IDPA) for about 8 mos. now with a G35. I come from trapshooting at a very competitive level and would like to build my skills to compete on a national level in the pistol sports as well. My shooting has improved (B shooter in limited 10 and Expert in ESP) with practice and round count and a couple of months ago I started making plans to have an S-I built with a short dustcover and bushing barrel which would still allow me to shoot both disciplines with one gun and continue my improvement. However after reading some posts which indicated that an open gun speeds up a shooters learning curve I started thinking about a move to open. (I very much like the trickness of the open guns as well.) I have been searching the board but I couldn't find a post which directly answered my questions so here they are.

1. Given equal effort (practice, dryfire, matches) which gun will help speed my improvement more?

2. If your opinion is open, should I go with a 5" gun or can a new open shooter handle the short hybrid open guns?

3. Finally, if open is your answer, which caliber?

thanx in advance, Craig

[lgbmike]

I am in almost the exact same situation but have decided to definently go open. Steve Anderson author of Refinement and Repitition convinced me of that. I am interested to see what everyones opinion is on this topic when they get up this morning (2:30 am post).

http://www.andersonshooting.com/

Michael

[Mad Scientist]

Craig,

I have been shooting USPSA events for 3 years. I think that open is an easier gun to shoot and progress is made quicker. on the flip side

the competition in open is probable the stifist around.At any major match you will have a disproprtionate amount of GMs in open than any other division. like wise limeted will usualy have more shooteers sighned up than any other division.If you want to progress in any division the best advise that any one can get is to pick a set up get it tuned so that it fells good to you. Have total confidence in your set up and shoot it alot. You will improve at a pace your natural skills and determination will alow. I dont think equiptment will compensate for learned skills in any division.

I have shot short open guns , 5 inch open guns ,Glocks open and limeted/ L 10 Caspion open/ 38, supper comp ,9x21 and 9 major in open and 40 in limeted/ L 10. you name it.

All of them are capable and after a short period of adjustment You will get used to them.

My advise for you now is to spend your money on ammo and some lessons with a realy good instructor. a few names come to mind.

Jerry Michuleck

T. J.

Max Michelle

Some one with the credentials/ ability to teach you The right way to do

things It sounds simple but a good teacher can save you tons of time and money teaching you good habits ,Training drills and they could better tell you what area of the game you would excell in . There are a lot of factors that dictate where you would be best. E.G. some one that can do 1.2 mag changes would shine in L10 . some one that dosent have great eyes would be better in open. save your self some time and money and lots of bad habits . get some prof. help.

Johnnie

[Cameron]

I am in the same boat. Went open class. The dot will allow you to focus on everything else in the shooting sport, however, good sight picture skills are a must coming from a limited gun.

MY answers

1. Dryfire everyday, be honest with the dryfire. Major matches big time, shoot all that you can. Practice drills, not stages so much. Take video tape of matches, practice, dryfire, etc. Figure out what YOU need to work on based on the video of your performance.

2. Given you are classified roughly the same as I, I would love a short, light open gun. I currently shoot a 5", heavy gun. Get the best you can afford. Shoot many different guns under match conditions before YOU decide what YOU need.

3. .38 super if you can afford to feed it brass, 9x19 if brass costs are an issue.

Most important, have fun. Good luck. Steve Andersons book will give you a solid program for a dryfire routine. Surround yourself and shoot with the best shooters you can. Listen, watch, take a chance and trust YOUR speed.

[mcoliver]

I also heard about the benefits of shooting dots. But being short in funds, I decided what the heck and slapped a cmore in my limited gun. For several weeks now I've used this setup and the biggest eye opener for me was "how my trigger control really sucks!"

The dot let's you see a lot, lot more. As a consequence, I realized I can do things I've never really attempted while I was using iron sights, like doubling slow falling poppers, engaging double swingers while they're actually swinging, etc. And this is with the same basic gun, but only with the dot sight.

Of course, you'll just have to be patient with people who cannot understand your goals of putting dots in your single-hole, non-comped gun.

But, heck, the gun can give you one big excuse if your shoting sucks.

Good luck.

[eric nielsen]

Open. 5 or 5.5inch barrel. 38 Super.

Unless you luck into a 9mmMajor that already works. Guessing those will be available used in about 2 or 3 years. With a Super now, you can always buy a 9mm barrel later.

[Flexmoney]

I am probably in the minority, but I feel that if you skip to an open gun you miss out on two of the toughest things to learn.

Shooting Limited Major:

1. Dealing with recoil.

2. Front sight focus.

[Newguy]

I was in the same boat--shot limited for a couple of years and recently went to open. Since I wasn't sure I really wanted to shoot open class, I bought a lightly used .38 super for a good price (half of the original cost) just to see if I liked it. I like the gun, although I haven't competed with it yet.

1. Given equal effort (practice, dryfire, matches) which gun will help speed my improvement more?

Travis Tomasie (and I think Max Michel) believe that the learning curve will be shorter with an open gun because of the dot. I've been shooting the open for the past few weeks and today I shot my limited gun. For whatever reason, I saw the front sight lift and return more clearly than I'd seen it before. Maybe it was related to practicing with the dot. I can't say for sure. What I am sure of is that my shooting didn't get worse going from an open to a limited gun.

2. If your opinion is open, should I go with a 5" gun or can a new open shooter handle the short hybrid open guns?

Try the hybrid first. I shot one in 9mm major and was unimpressed--the gun felt violent, harsh and was unpleasant to shoot compared to a 5" .38 super. For me, the shorter transition times wasn't worth the trade-off.

3. Finally, if open is your answer, which caliber?

The price of .38 super (10 cents a stick) gets expensive quick, and if you're cheap like me you you'll spend a lot of time on your knees looking for brass. Worrying about lost brass definitely takes some of the fun away from shooting. I'm thinking about rebarreling to 9mm so that I can walk away from the brass. That said, you're loading the 9mm pretty much to the margins and it may be tricky to make major.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

I too am interested in caliber choices when building an open gun. I shoot limited but I just bought my wife a .38supercomp open gun. After purchasing 4K pieces of supercomp brass, 9mm major looks interesting .....A few questions for those in the know. How unstable/sensitive are your 9mm major loads? I would think that 9mm would be very sensitive to changes in temperature or other factors such as bullet setback since the case volume is small. With a typical 9mm load, is there enough gas to efficient get a comp working well? Low case volume should translate to lighter loads which means less gas to push against comp surfaces. I am just starting to load for this gun but it seems that I get best comp efficiency somewhere around 170-172 PF. At 165 PF, its obvious that the comp is not doing all that it is capable of and since it appears from threads here that people are just barely making major in 9mm, how well are the comps working?

[38supPat]

I agree with Flex. The learning curve might be quicker (initially) with Open. But your skills will be much deeper if you start with Standard div. Open guns are relitively easy to shoot, so through the bottom and middle classes you will progress rapidly, if you use this as a measure (which can be an inaccurate scale) but the upper classes will be very tough. Whereas if you start Standard initially you will have to work harder and progress might take awhile, but in the end you will be a better shooter.

[Jon Merricks]

Take a look at what TT has to say about it.

[Harmon]

i was thinking about throwin a dot on my glock to shoot steel

get me a spare barrel ported through the lightening slot in the slide...

on the other side, i think the GM limited/limited 10 and production shooters actually are more talented than OPEN GM.

simply because it take more ability to line up sights, find targets and manage recoil than it does to point and click.

Not that GM open shooters arent good, its just i think the better GM shooters are classified GM in more than one division....im waiting on uspsa to recognize the STAPLE GUN division....a division that pays of for extra shots, shots through the sticks and on edges of targets....I AM THE KING!!

[twix]

That's cool HG. You can come staple with us any time.

I just put an Optima on my 35. It's pretty cool.

TomB