Wildman Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 For revolver division, does a full length Bomar rib qualify as a site change or as an external weight on a 686 with service (fixed front, slot rear) sites? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I regret that nobody has attempted to answer your question, but I suspect that everybody else, like me, doesn't understand it. If you can expand your question and hopefully give us a link where we might see the sight you want to use, that would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I believe he is talking about this or this or this You don't say where you are located, or if you are talking about Revolver Standard or Open. Let's look at the 14th Edition Rule Book for the IPSC rules first: Appendix E - Divisions (IPSC) Revolver - Standard (p. 89) e) External modifications are not allowed except as follows:- replacement sights k) External modifications such as weights or devices to control recoil are specifically not allowed. The Bo-Mar rib sights for the revolvers pictures above are made and marketed to be sights, and not as a weight or a device to control recoil. going down the rule book, to page 93, the rules for the US Divisions are listed: Revolver Standard e) External modifications are not allowed except as follows:-replacement sights j) External modifications such as weights or devices to control recoil are specifically not allowed. If you are shooting in Revolver Standard, I would say that it is a permissible replacement sight, not a weight or a device to control recoil. If Open, then anything goes, as long as it is safe. At $250/hr, that will be $62.50 Please be sure to tip your server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Thanks, Davidwiz. USPSA, revolver division, and the last photo is a match. Do you accept credit cards? How about American Express? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Aw, heck. I'm feeling generous. I'll write it off as pro bono. BTW - All the pictures that I posted were liberated from Bo-Mar's web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I almost would bet that would be considered a weight adding device because they do add considerable weight to the gun. It is marketed as a sight, but we know the reason behind it. Where is doctor vince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I agree that they do add weight to the gun, between 5oz - 7.5oz depending on which on you get, but to me it seems that they are a sight first, added weight second. The whole purpose of them is to give more elevation and windage adjustment to the user. The best person to ask would be John Amidon, as Wildman is in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Say what?? That long black thing along the whole length of the top of the revolver is "a sight"? Well slap my ass and call me Susan ...... I need to get out more often, because I've never seen one of those contraptions before. Anyway, David is correct that John Amidon is the best contact for competitors in the USA, but I also intend to consult with John before giving my views on the issue. While IPSC and USPSA Divsions are different in many ways, we share identical language in the January 2004 rulebook in this respect: 18. Modifications such as weights or other devices to control and/or to reduce recoil are prohibited. 19. Modifications which are permitted are limited to: ...... 19.1 Replacement of, or modification to, sights, hammers and cylinder releases; -:and I want to make sure that John and I are on the same page when it comes to this matter before I reply. Will revert soonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Susan (Sorry, I mean Vince) - Not that I have a wheelgun, but I believe these types of rib sights are quite popular on PPC and bowling pin guns. For the last sight I pictured, Bo-Mar suggests that they are ideal for the patrol policeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Vince, just an FYI... Those sights have been around since dirt. They in no way were built for our game to circumvent the rules. (thought that might help you out). They are a sight that shooters from other games migth already have on their guns. They are sights...the fact that they just happen to weigh more...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Thanks Flex. For my further enlightenment and education, why would somebody want to use the subject "one piece" sight instead of separate front/rear sights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Flex is right, this is almost standard for PPC and I've also seen it in NRA Action. It is the poor mans way of "racing" their PPC guns. Its often used before a full PPC modification is done (bull barrel, wings, etc. I think it's overtly to provide a flat, true sight plane, but it does add extra weight which helps the PPC'ers even with the pipsqueak loads. Their guns are just not supposed to move at all. If it were allowed it might bring in a few more competitors, but they would be shooting .38 specials. Have never seen it on a 25-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Again, not having a wheel gun, I believe having a rib sight allows for greater windage and elevation adjustments. Just about every PPC revolver will have this type of sight on it. For the last sight pictured, Bo-Mar says: This front sight height is designed for "Head Hold" at 50 yards and "Center Hold" at 25 yards. Adjustments are made with the rear sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I might have to dig out my Colt .45 Shop Manual, but I think they have these for 1911's as well. I figured it was common on Bullseye guns? (Limited 10?) Some have a "tuner" to provide perfect barrel lock-up positioning. And, they give a bit more sight radius. Also, their click adjustments are pretty well tuned in. For Limited...there has to be more than 500 "componenets" produced. so they would be legal regardless. (Do the Revolver rules read similar?) Clark Jr. goes over the ins-and-outs of one of their video for tearing a 1911 apart and putting it back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Wildman (still in KC?), I'd have to read up on the wheel gun rules, but I doubt there is any mention of what the weight of a replacement sight has to be, nor on configuartion. And, I don't recall any rule that states "so many ounces over stock" for any Division except for USPSA Production. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 24, 2004 Author Share Posted July 24, 2004 Man, some of you guys make me feel so old. Before there was IPSC, and even before Action Pistol, (my RO shirts still say Bianchi Cup, no NRA), there was PPC. For those of us who shot carry guns, the BOMAR rib was salvation. It was the only way to get windage and elevation adjustments, and at half the cost of installing adjustable sights, on a department gun. S&W L Frames come in several barrel lengths, including an 8 3/8" full under lug model. The 8 3/8" version is substantially heavier than a 4" version with the cover-up rib. Therefore, the cover-up rib is a replacement sight that is not heavier than the same revolver that has a longer barrel, at least from my perspective. Yep, still in KC, still "between assignments". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Hi folks, Well this has proven to be a no-brainer. On the BoMar website, the rib and sight for revolvers is described as: " … This Rib is excellent for the Police Combat Shooter. Adds enough weight to reduce recovery time making it ideal for Rapid Fire. Available for the Smith & Wesson revolver, Model 14 and Model 19 with the S&W factory 6" barrel. Sighting radius with straight post style front sight is 7-3/4 inches. Approximate weight 6-1/2ounces. Easy installation, drilling and taping two holes. Instructions included." One of our technical experts on the IPSC Rules Committee added "The 6 ½ oz additional weight is approx. 19% of a S&W M19’s stock weight of 31-33oz depending on the source of information.". Bottom line: This particular BoMar has sights at both ends, but the rest of the contraption is a weight (the % amount varying, depending on which model revolver is used, but it is nonetheless a weight), "intended to control or reduce recoil" so it is therefore illegal under IPSC (and USPSA) Revolver Standard Division rules. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 26, 2004 Author Share Posted July 26, 2004 Vince, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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