3 Gun Nation Semi Pro Standings Announced

[Jesse Tischauser]

My names not showing up in the semi pro results either and I was 9th open at TX multigun and my buddy was 10th and his names not on there either.

Email Chad. They have their own forum sponsored by AR15.com. They don't frequent this site.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Really guys? I am going to give this semipro deal the best shot my poor boy wallet can take, but if you're jumping to a division that has 6 shooters what did you really prove? If you have always been a HM, Irons, Open shooter then have at it. But if you are changing division so that you can then go shoot TO against the best and then get hammed in the year end shoot off, or next year if you make the pro series what have you really accomplished?

The best guys in any division are more than likely better shooters than I am, as are many of the shooters who will jump to a division where the competition isn't as stiff. But if I saw that 3 guys I could beat hands down where in Heavy Laser Cannon so then I went out and bought all the gear for Heavy Laser Cannon what have I proved? That I am willing to buy my way into a competition where I will be outclassed?

In my mind if the pro series is going to only be TO, and the semi pro series is going to be the direct gateway to that via a year end shoot off. Why would a guy who shot 77% of someone who isn't the best's score in HTO get more points than a TO shooter who shoots 50% of say Daniel Horner's score? Especially when he beat's everyone else for the Overall title regardless of division. Isn't that what the divisional titles/series are for?

Full Disclosure: I have had 2 Manhattans, a long week, and 4 hours of sleep in the last 48. Not trying to insult anyone, it's your time, money, and effort. I know how much each of us puts into 3 gun, especially if you are talking about traveling and hitting 6-8 major matches. I just don't understand the mentality.

Let me be clear, I have never shot anything but TO and probably won't make any jumps this season because I also have limited shooting funds. But the reality of the Semi-Pro series is that the four with the most points at the end of the year will get an invitation to the $5K shootout in Vegas. Given the "Horner factor", it's simply harder to score 80-90% in TO than it is in most of the other divisions. There are very good shooters in all divisions, but few dominate so completely as Daniel does in TO.

While I haven't changed divisions to try and gain a competitive advantage (and probably won't anytime soon), I see it no differently than "gaming" a stage during a match to gain a competitive advantage. It's simply a means to improve your overall standing in the race - isn't this the point of competition??

If I could decide that I didn't want to shoot any 5 targets in a match and you had to shoot them all would you call that gaming too? 3gn is trying to compare apples to oranges by saying a 77% shooter in division X is better than a 74% shooter in division Y. There will be some guy who shoots TO all year and doesn't get a shot next year, who could hands down beat a shooter who jumps divisions every match to make it into the top 25.

If the big dance is going to be all TO all the time... shouldn't the audition be too?

If you have a better way to do it I'm sure they would love to hear it.

If they forced everyone to shoot TO the other divisions would be even emptier. Everyone's objective is to grow the sport not shrink it.

If you don't like the fact that you can get more points in Open than TO shoot Open with your TO guns like I did at FNH last year. Most points I got all season!!!

[ClutchUSMC]

Really guys? I am going to give this semipro deal the best shot my poor boy wallet can take, but if you're jumping to a division that has 6 shooters what did you really prove? If you have always been a HM, Irons, Open shooter then have at it. But if you are changing division so that you can then go shoot TO against the best and then get hammed in the year end shoot off, or next year if you make the pro series what have you really accomplished?

The best guys in any division are more than likely better shooters than I am, as are many of the shooters who will jump to a division where the competition isn't as stiff. But if I saw that 3 guys I could beat hands down where in Heavy Laser Cannon so then I went out and bought all the gear for Heavy Laser Cannon what have I proved? That I am willing to buy my way into a competition where I will be outclassed?

In my mind if the pro series is going to only be TO, and the semi pro series is going to be the direct gateway to that via a year end shoot off. Why would a guy who shot 77% of someone who isn't the best's score in HTO get more points than a TO shooter who shoots 50% of say Daniel Horner's score? Especially when he beat's everyone else for the Overall title regardless of division. Isn't that what the divisional titles/series are for?

Full Disclosure: I have had 2 Manhattans, a long week, and 4 hours of sleep in the last 48. Not trying to insult anyone, it's your time, money, and effort. I know how much each of us puts into 3 gun, especially if you are talking about traveling and hitting 6-8 major matches. I just don't understand the mentality.

Let me be clear, I have never shot anything but TO and probably won't make any jumps this season because I also have limited shooting funds. But the reality of the Semi-Pro series is that the four with the most points at the end of the year will get an invitation to the $5K shootout in Vegas. Given the "Horner factor", it's simply harder to score 80-90% in TO than it is in most of the other divisions. There are very good shooters in all divisions, but few dominate so completely as Daniel does in TO.

While I haven't changed divisions to try and gain a competitive advantage (and probably won't anytime soon), I see it no differently than "gaming" a stage during a match to gain a competitive advantage. It's simply a means to improve your overall standing in the race - isn't this the point of competition??

If I could decide that I didn't want to shoot any 5 targets in a match and you had to shoot them all would you call that gaming too? 3gn is trying to compare apples to oranges by saying a 77% shooter in division X is better than a 74% shooter in division Y. There will be some guy who shoots TO all year and doesn't get a shot next year, who could hands down beat a shooter who jumps divisions every match to make it into the top 25.

If the big dance is going to be all TO all the time... shouldn't the audition be too?

I don't get your point about skipping 5 targets in a match and don't understand how it applies to either "gaming" or this discussion. If I had to define "gaming", it would be something like this "the application of experience and ingenuity, within the existing rule set, to achieve the best result (score)".

I agree with your thoughts that the current rule set in the Pro-Series may be comparing apples to oranges with respect to determining overall score and placement. It's very likely we'll have some "pure TO" shooters left out of the top 25 at the end of the year; also very likely some may be better shooters than those who "Division shopped" their way into the top 25. That said - "the rules is the rules" and may the best shooter / gamer win.

ETA: I just wish my score was reflected in the current standings; getting this fixed is still job one for me.

Think of the advantage you get by shooting against the guys from 64 on down in the other divisions vs shooting against all the pro series guys in TO. It would be like me choosing to skip all slugs past 50 at blue ridge. I agree the analogy was pretty muddy.

But if the guy that wins Heavy Laser Cannon is jimbo from the sticks and finishing 102nd overall... How does that 99% the guy right behind him got compare to the 45% I practiced hundreds of hours to get out of TO? You are going to have guys who finish higher in the Overall Standings get less points than guys who finish behind them. I mean if 10 of us really wanted it we could conspire to jump in whatever bastard division was vacant at a match and just rotate who gets to win. Or just all shoot slow, and try to all get 95% scores. Not that anyone would do that. Most of us it seems want to win on a level playing field and heads up.

Yes, it's well within the rules. And I won't think any less of you as a man if you do it. But when you show up at the bottom of the scoreboard next year on the pro-series and are shooting 45% of the match winners scores I hope they pull your card and tell you to go back to Ray Gun division to dominate.

Do you want to be the best? Do you really want to compare your skill against other people on a level field? More power to you if you can make it to the pro series. I know I'm not there yet, but when I do get there it will be because I went up against the best not because I hid out in some empty division.

[ClutchUSMC]

Really guys? I am going to give this semipro deal the best shot my poor boy wallet can take, but if you're jumping to a division that has 6 shooters what did you really prove? If you have always been a HM, Irons, Open shooter then have at it. But if you are changing division so that you can then go shoot TO against the best and then get hammed in the year end shoot off, or next year if you make the pro series what have you really accomplished?

The best guys in any division are more than likely better shooters than I am, as are many of the shooters who will jump to a division where the competition isn't as stiff. But if I saw that 3 guys I could beat hands down where in Heavy Laser Cannon so then I went out and bought all the gear for Heavy Laser Cannon what have I proved? That I am willing to buy my way into a competition where I will be outclassed?

In my mind if the pro series is going to only be TO, and the semi pro series is going to be the direct gateway to that via a year end shoot off. Why would a guy who shot 77% of someone who isn't the best's score in HTO get more points than a TO shooter who shoots 50% of say Daniel Horner's score? Especially when he beat's everyone else for the Overall title regardless of division. Isn't that what the divisional titles/series are for?

Full Disclosure: I have had 2 Manhattans, a long week, and 4 hours of sleep in the last 48. Not trying to insult anyone, it's your time, money, and effort. I know how much each of us puts into 3 gun, especially if you are talking about traveling and hitting 6-8 major matches. I just don't understand the mentality.

Let me be clear, I have never shot anything but TO and probably won't make any jumps this season because I also have limited shooting funds. But the reality of the Semi-Pro series is that the four with the most points at the end of the year will get an invitation to the $5K shootout in Vegas. Given the "Horner factor", it's simply harder to score 80-90% in TO than it is in most of the other divisions. There are very good shooters in all divisions, but few dominate so completely as Daniel does in TO.

While I haven't changed divisions to try and gain a competitive advantage (and probably won't anytime soon), I see it no differently than "gaming" a stage during a match to gain a competitive advantage. It's simply a means to improve your overall standing in the race - isn't this the point of competition??

If I could decide that I didn't want to shoot any 5 targets in a match and you had to shoot them all would you call that gaming too? 3gn is trying to compare apples to oranges by saying a 77% shooter in division X is better than a 74% shooter in division Y. There will be some guy who shoots TO all year and doesn't get a shot next year, who could hands down beat a shooter who jumps divisions every match to make it into the top 25.

If the big dance is going to be all TO all the time... shouldn't the audition be too?

If you have a better way to do it I'm sure they would love to hear it.

If they forced everyone to shoot TO the other divisions would be even emptier. Everyone's objective is to grow the sport not shrink it.

If you don't like the fact that you can get more points in Open than TO shoot Open with your TO guns like I did at FNH last year. Most points I got all season!!!

Easy, just keep the points separate for each division and then hand out slots at the end of the year based on participation. Isn't that what they did for the shoot offs in years 1&2? If you have 25 slots for the shoot off then all you would need is 4% of the shooters to participate in heavy laser tank light saber and then you could all fight for one slot.

Edited May 13, 2012 by ClutchUSMC

[Jesse Tischauser]

Really guys? I am going to give this semipro deal the best shot my poor boy wallet can take, but if you're jumping to a division that has 6 shooters what did you really prove? If you have always been a HM, Irons, Open shooter then have at it. But if you are changing division so that you can then go shoot TO against the best and then get hammed in the year end shoot off, or next year if you make the pro series what have you really accomplished?

The best guys in any division are more than likely better shooters than I am, as are many of the shooters who will jump to a division where the competition isn't as stiff. But if I saw that 3 guys I could beat hands down where in Heavy Laser Cannon so then I went out and bought all the gear for Heavy Laser Cannon what have I proved? That I am willing to buy my way into a competition where I will be outclassed?

In my mind if the pro series is going to only be TO, and the semi pro series is going to be the direct gateway to that via a year end shoot off. Why would a guy who shot 77% of someone who isn't the best's score in HTO get more points than a TO shooter who shoots 50% of say Daniel Horner's score? Especially when he beat's everyone else for the Overall title regardless of division. Isn't that what the divisional titles/series are for?

Full Disclosure: I have had 2 Manhattans, a long week, and 4 hours of sleep in the last 48. Not trying to insult anyone, it's your time, money, and effort. I know how much each of us puts into 3 gun, especially if you are talking about traveling and hitting 6-8 major matches. I just don't understand the mentality.

Let me be clear, I have never shot anything but TO and probably won't make any jumps this season because I also have limited shooting funds. But the reality of the Semi-Pro series is that the four with the most points at the end of the year will get an invitation to the $5K shootout in Vegas. Given the "Horner factor", it's simply harder to score 80-90% in TO than it is in most of the other divisions. There are very good shooters in all divisions, but few dominate so completely as Daniel does in TO.

While I haven't changed divisions to try and gain a competitive advantage (and probably won't anytime soon), I see it no differently than "gaming" a stage during a match to gain a competitive advantage. It's simply a means to improve your overall standing in the race - isn't this the point of competition??

If I could decide that I didn't want to shoot any 5 targets in a match and you had to shoot them all would you call that gaming too? 3gn is trying to compare apples to oranges by saying a 77% shooter in division X is better than a 74% shooter in division Y. There will be some guy who shoots TO all year and doesn't get a shot next year, who could hands down beat a shooter who jumps divisions every match to make it into the top 25.

If the big dance is going to be all TO all the time... shouldn't the audition be too?

I don't get your point about skipping 5 targets in a match and don't understand how it applies to either "gaming" or this discussion. If I had to define "gaming", it would be something like this "the application of experience and ingenuity, within the existing rule set, to achieve the best result (score)".

I agree with your thoughts that the current rule set in the Pro-Series may be comparing apples to oranges with respect to determining overall score and placement. It's very likely we'll have some "pure TO" shooters left out of the top 25 at the end of the year; also very likely some may be better shooters than those who "Division shopped" their way into the top 25. That said - "the rules is the rules" and may the best shooter / gamer win.

ETA: I just wish my score was reflected in the current standings; getting this fixed is still job one for me.

Think of the advantage you get by shooting against the guys from 64 on down in the other divisions vs shooting against all the pro series guys in TO. It would be like me choosing to skip all slugs past 50 at blue ridge. I agree the analogy was pretty muddy.

But if the guy that wins Heavy Laser Cannon is jimbo from the sticks and finishing 102nd overall... How does that 99% the guy right behind him got compare to the 45% I practiced hundreds of hours to get out of TO? You are going to have guys who finish higher in the Overall Standings get less points than guys who finish behind them. I mean if 10 of us really wanted it we could conspire to jump in whatever bastard division was vacant at a match and just rotate who gets to win. Or just all shoot slow, and try to all get 95% scores. Not that anyone would do that. Most of us it seems want to win on a level playing field and heads up.

Yes, it's well within the rules. And I won't think any less of you as a man if you do it. But when you show up at the bottom of the scoreboard next year on the pro-series and are shooting 45% of the match winners scores I hope they pull your card and tell you to go back to Ray Gun division to dominate.

Do you want to be the best? Do you really want to compare your skill against other people on a level field? More power to you if you can make it to the pro series. I know I'm not there yet, but when I do get there it will be because I went up against the best not because I hid out in some empty division.

There isn't a division out there that anyone is guaranteed 95% anymore. Don't forget the winners of those bastard divisions get $5,000!!! So you have top 15 pro such as myself moving over to the next closest thing to TO which IMO is HMO to try to challenge Barry Dueck.

I'm gonna jump over to Open for 3 matches as well to see which of the 3 divisions I can accumulate the most points in.

If there's time I might even try Tac Irons. That's an easy division if you can see. Heck it's only got James Casanova, Kelly Neal and the 2011 champion Kurt Miller. Should be a piece of cake!

Edited May 13, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[ClutchUSMC]

I'm not talking about the divisional money. I'm glad thats what it is to you. I'm talking specifically to how the points are applied to the semi-pro standings. Which for most of us, at least in our dreams, is our way onto the pro series, that is all TO. I could give a shit about the money. But hey Mr. Bigshot if its really not about the gear and all the equipment is comparable across the board when don't you shoot an SKS, s&w 625, and a citori at the next pro series match? I mean that is just the same as tac-optics gear right? Heck you don't even have to go that extreme to impress me, shoot real HM gear, irons, .45 with 10 rounds, and a pump.

Really guys? I am going to give this semipro deal the best shot my poor boy wallet can take, but if you're jumping to a division that has 6 shooters what did you really prove? If you have always been a HM, Irons, Open shooter then have at it. But if you are changing division so that you can then go shoot TO against the best and then get hammed in the year end shoot off, or next year if you make the pro series what have you really accomplished?

The best guys in any division are more than likely better shooters than I am, as are many of the shooters who will jump to a division where the competition isn't as stiff. But if I saw that 3 guys I could beat hands down where in Heavy Laser Cannon so then I went out and bought all the gear for Heavy Laser Cannon what have I proved? That I am willing to buy my way into a competition where I will be outclassed?

In my mind if the pro series is going to only be TO, and the semi pro series is going to be the direct gateway to that via a year end shoot off. Why would a guy who shot 77% of someone who isn't the best's score in HTO get more points than a TO shooter who shoots 50% of say Daniel Horner's score? Especially when he beat's everyone else for the Overall title regardless of division. Isn't that what the divisional titles/series are for?

Full Disclosure: I have had 2 Manhattans, a long week, and 4 hours of sleep in the last 48. Not trying to insult anyone, it's your time, money, and effort. I know how much each of us puts into 3 gun, especially if you are talking about traveling and hitting 6-8 major matches. I just don't understand the mentality.

Let me be clear, I have never shot anything but TO and probably won't make any jumps this season because I also have limited shooting funds. But the reality of the Semi-Pro series is that the four with the most points at the end of the year will get an invitation to the $5K shootout in Vegas. Given the "Horner factor", it's simply harder to score 80-90% in TO than it is in most of the other divisions. There are very good shooters in all divisions, but few dominate so completely as Daniel does in TO.

While I haven't changed divisions to try and gain a competitive advantage (and probably won't anytime soon), I see it no differently than "gaming" a stage during a match to gain a competitive advantage. It's simply a means to improve your overall standing in the race - isn't this the point of competition??

If I could decide that I didn't want to shoot any 5 targets in a match and you had to shoot them all would you call that gaming too? 3gn is trying to compare apples to oranges by saying a 77% shooter in division X is better than a 74% shooter in division Y. There will be some guy who shoots TO all year and doesn't get a shot next year, who could hands down beat a shooter who jumps divisions every match to make it into the top 25.

If the big dance is going to be all TO all the time... shouldn't the audition be too?

I don't get your point about skipping 5 targets in a match and don't understand how it applies to either "gaming" or this discussion. If I had to define "gaming", it would be something like this "the application of experience and ingenuity, within the existing rule set, to achieve the best result (score)".

I agree with your thoughts that the current rule set in the Pro-Series may be comparing apples to oranges with respect to determining overall score and placement. It's very likely we'll have some "pure TO" shooters left out of the top 25 at the end of the year; also very likely some may be better shooters than those who "Division shopped" their way into the top 25. That said - "the rules is the rules" and may the best shooter / gamer win.

ETA: I just wish my score was reflected in the current standings; getting this fixed is still job one for me.

Think of the advantage you get by shooting against the guys from 64 on down in the other divisions vs shooting against all the pro series guys in TO. It would be like me choosing to skip all slugs past 50 at blue ridge. I agree the analogy was pretty muddy.

But if the guy that wins Heavy Laser Cannon is jimbo from the sticks and finishing 102nd overall... How does that 99% the guy right behind him got compare to the 45% I practiced hundreds of hours to get out of TO? You are going to have guys who finish higher in the Overall Standings get less points than guys who finish behind them. I mean if 10 of us really wanted it we could conspire to jump in whatever bastard division was vacant at a match and just rotate who gets to win. Or just all shoot slow, and try to all get 95% scores. Not that anyone would do that. Most of us it seems want to win on a level playing field and heads up.

Yes, it's well within the rules. And I won't think any less of you as a man if you do it. But when you show up at the bottom of the scoreboard next year on the pro-series and are shooting 45% of the match winners scores I hope they pull your card and tell you to go back to Ray Gun division to dominate.

Do you want to be the best? Do you really want to compare your skill against other people on a level field? More power to you if you can make it to the pro series. I know I'm not there yet, but when I do get there it will be because I went up against the best not because I hid out in some empty division.

There isn't a division out there that anyone is guaranteed 95% anymore. Don't forget the winners of those bastard divisions get $5,000!!! So you have top 15 pro such as myself moving over to the next closest thing to TO which IMO is HMO to try to challenge Barry Dueck.

I'm gonna jump over to Open for 3 matches as well to see which of the 3 divisions I can accumulate the most points in.

If there's time I might even try Tac Irons. That's an easy division if you can see. Heck it's only got James Casanova, Kelly Neal and the 2011 champion Kurt Miller. Should be a piece of cake!

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Yes, it's well within the rules. And I won't think any less of you as a man if you do it. But when you show up at the bottom of the scoreboard next year on the pro-series and are shooting 45% of the match winners scores I hope they pull your card and tell you to go back to Ray Gun division to dominate.

I turned down a Pro-Series invite this year because I couldn't make the required matches due to work conflicts, so I really don't feel like I have anything to prove. I'm just interested in doing as well as I can in the current Semi-Pro game. The tone of your posts is starting to come across as a bit angry - everything OK?

ETA: Jesse's title is Mayor, not Mr Bigshot.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Fullauto_Shooter

[ClutchUSMC]

Yes, it's well within the rules. And I won't think any less of you as a man if you do it. But when you show up at the bottom of the scoreboard next year on the pro-series and are shooting 45% of the match winners scores I hope they pull your card and tell you to go back to Ray Gun division to dominate.

I turned down a Pro-Series invite this year because I couldn't make the required matches due to work conflicts, so I really don't feel like I have anything to prove. I'm just interested in doing as well as I can in the current Semi-Pro game. The tone of your post comes across as a bit angry - everything OK?

Yeah I'm good, but it took reading your post to realize I was on a tear. I told you guys 2 hours ago makers mark, rough week, and little sleep.

I completely understand turning it down, its a lot of money to lay out. Thats not what I meant at all. And it wasn't directed at you at all, I meant in general.

And for the recored I do think comparing scores from different divisions is silly and proves nothing. Like I said at the beginning we all know how much time, money, and work this is. Do you really want to see someone at the end of the year bust his hump and get passed over for a chance at the shoot off by someone that he finished higher than overall every time they shot the same matches? It is very conceivable some TO shooter could get edged by a division jumper even though the TO shooter had a higher finish overall in matches where they both shot.

ETA: Those of us who are going to college on the GI bill, working full time, and trying to shoot as much as possible without the luxury of a sponsor are the ones that get left behind in that situation because we couldn't just run up to FNH at the end of the year with our Gucci Open kit and rock out. I bust my ass on and off the range so that I can play this game, and I think of most guys in this "semi-pro" deal to be about in the same boat.

Edited May 13, 2012 by ClutchUSMC

[Benelli Chick]

The PRO-Series is ALL Tac Scope.

Now the division series is by division and pros can compete in that, but it doesn't effect their results in the Pro-series...just the divisional results.

It's only the semi-pro and amateur that get to mix division scores...

If they didn't take scores no matter what division, how would they decide at the end of the season how many to take from each division???

I know that many people think the best shooters are all in Tac-Scope, but...well, I don't agree and I think recognizing other divisions is a good thing for the sport and the sponsors. More kinds of equipment, more shooters buying different stuff!

The pro-series, they have to shoot Tac-Scope in the two required matches and the other of the possible 3 for season scores.

That's apples to apples!

All the people that are in the pro-series this year were chosen the same way...best scores in whatever division they were shooting in and now they are all shooting tac-scope. Arguably, they may not be apples to apples because if you've been shooting Tac-Scope for years vs shooting Open and having to change...But, the pro slots were offered to the top shooters is all the divisions!

Denise (and my 2 cents)

[ClutchUSMC]

My thinking is that if you want to be the best HM shooter, then go win the divisional series. If you want to be on the pro-series shoot the semi-pro, make the top 25, and then win a shoot off. At least thats the way it read to me when I signed up for this deal.

Why would you want anything less than the most unbiased accurate way as possible to determine who makes up that top 25? Since the pro series is all TO, and every match I can think of without limited divisions is populated by mostly TO shooters that is the logical choice. But hey make it HM or Open or whatever division you want just as long as you are comparing people heads up.

I can't watch a guy drive a nascar car, another guy drive a F1 car, and another guy drive a toyota and tell you which one is the better drive because they all went around the same track.

[Jesse Tischauser]

My thinking is that if you want to be the best HM shooter, then go win the divisional series. If you want to be on the pro-series shoot the semi-pro, make the top 25, and then win a shoot off. At least thats the way it read to me when I signed up for this deal.

Why would you want anything less than the most unbiased accurate way as possible to determine who makes up that top 25? Since the pro series is all TO, and every match I can think of without limited divisions is populated by mostly TO shooters that is the logical choice. But hey make it HM or Open or whatever division you want just as long as you are comparing people heads up.

I can't watch a guy drive a nascar car, another guy drive a F1 car, and another guy drive a toyota and tell you which one is the better drive because they all went around the same track.

I am pretty sure everyone can see your point and I completely agree. Ideally we would all shoot the same division. Or better yet we would have 300+ shooters in every division so we could take the top 5-10 from each division. Unfortunately forcing people to change divisions to one they dont like and/or have the guns and gear for in this relatively small sport isnt feasible at this time. Maybe what we should be doing instead of argueing about whether or not 3GN is doing things right or wrong is contact or favorite manufacturers and ask them to start supporting 3GN and out sport. If there were enough sponsor's backing Shooters and matches and the game it could be like a tiny tiny version of NASCAR someday.

Until that time I'll keep paying for the majority of my $25-30,000 per year in 3 gun expenses match fees, ammo, range time etc. with the big paycheck I get from the great job I have as a result of my 9 years of military service and the good old GI Bill.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

Easy, just keep the points separate for each division and then hand out slots at the end of the year based on participation. Isn't that what they did for the shoot offs in years 1&2? If you have 25 slots for the shoot off then all you would need is 4% of the shooters to participate in heavy laser tank light saber and then you could all fight for one slot.

This is actually the same method I was going to try to use to do a regional club series deal. If HMI has 5% of the shootets for the season they get 5% of the slots to the big dance at the end of the season. The problem I had was infrastructure. I tabulated about 6 of the 9-10 matches we had in the area through April and I had so much trouble with the 3-4 different scoring systems, last names left off scores, incorrect scores that I had to stop working on this year and start working on a system for 2013 instead. I am not privy to any inside info at 3GN despite what some may think as a result of my big fast typing thumb and know it all attitude but I would guess that is the same problem 3GN is having after seeing hole many folks are missing scores, missing completely , or whatever else is messed up with the list that was just released.

I'm not talking about the divisional money. I'm glad thats what it is to you. I'm talking specifically to how the points are applied to the semi-pro standings. Which for most of us, at least in our dreams, is our way onto the pro series, that is all TO. I could give a shit about the money. But hey Mr. Bigshot if its really not about the gear and all the equipment is comparable across the board when don't you shoot an SKS, s&w 625, and a citori at the next pro series match? I mean that is just the same as tac-optics gear right? Heck you don't even have to go that extreme to impress me, shoot real HM gear, irons, .45 with 10 rounds, and a pump.

I don't own an SKS or a Citori because I sold every guns that arent for 3 gun except the two my father left me and the one I took my first deer with. But I will be shooting HMO or HeMan Optics at RM3G with the exact equipement you listed. I think NWM has similar gun rules but I might be able to shoot a double stack pistol. You want to talk about confusing? Try to figure out what guns u can use at what match for Heavy! It burnt Adam Popplewell last year at the FNH match. He showed up with the wrong pistol if I'm not mistaken. Had to borrow a SS from a buddy day before the match.

Mr. Bigshot Out!

Edited May 13, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

My dream for this whole 3GN thing is that someday we have a series and specific matches for each division much like that awesome HeMan match Denise and JJ are doing this year. That way we can all grab our division specific gear and shoot heads up in all the divisions.

Plus it would give me a reason to buy more cool competition guns and gear and a way to spend my 2nd mortgage money.

[Benelli Chick]

My dream for this whole 3GN thing is that someday we have a series and specific matches for each division much like that awesome HeMan match Denise and JJ are doing this year. That way we can all grab our division specific gear and shoot heads up in all the divisions.

But....you're not coming to He-Man Nationals...excuses, excuses...

[Lead-Head]

My thinking is that if you want to be the best HM shooter, then go win the divisional series. If you want to be on the pro-series shoot the semi-pro, make the top 25, and then win a shoot off. At least thats the way it read to me when I signed up for this deal.

Why would you want anything less than the most unbiased accurate way as possible to determine who makes up that top 25? Since the pro series is all TO, and every match I can think of without limited divisions is populated by mostly TO shooters that is the logical choice. But hey make it HM or Open or whatever division you want just as long as you are comparing people heads up.

I can't watch a guy drive a nascar car, another guy drive a F1 car, and another guy drive a toyota and tell you which one is the better drive because they all went around the same track.

I see your point and appreciate the race car analogy. I imagine if you took drivers from each of those divisons and put them in anything from an f1 to a go cart you would get a pretty good race because of there level of talent, commitment, and competitive drive.

Some of the top HM,,open, and TI shooters that got in to the pro-series this year have put in a lot of time, practice, and $$$ to make the transistion. According to the scores, some are doing very well (11 of top 25 regularly shoot something other than TO at major matches). It is appples vs oranges, BUT if you are one Bad-ass MF'n apple you can hold your own with any orange out there.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Lead-Head

[Jesse Tischauser]

My dream for this whole 3GN thing is that someday we have a series and specific matches for each division much like that awesome HeMan match Denise and JJ are doing this year. That way we can all grab our division specific gear and shoot heads up in all the divisions.

But....you're not coming to He-Man Nationals...excuses, excuses...

I hate that I have to miss that one. I hope it is a huge success and you two don't get burned out running two big matches so it happens again in the future.

[Benelli Chick]

My dream for this whole 3GN thing is that someday we have a series and specific matches for each division much like that awesome HeMan match Denise and JJ are doing this year. That way we can all grab our division specific gear and shoot heads up in all the divisions.

But....you're not coming to He-Man Nationals...excuses, excuses...

I hate that I have to miss that one. I hope it is a huge success and you two don't get burned out running two big matches so it happens again in the future.

It's good to have a dream!

[pigfish73]

Well, at least I showed up on the Semi Pro list. I'm missing a score, as is the guy that placed above me. I know 2 guys who were supposed to be on that list and got left out. I realize there are some bugs in the system. Maybe there needs to be a way for us to check in with 3GN so they know to look for our scores at a particular match. I was reminded by my friend Rusty Edwards (they got both of his scores) that my name was misspelled on the SMM3G score sheet. I think that will be a problem for 3GN too.

[pigfish73]

I got a reply from Chad about my missing score. Please make sure your name is spelled correctly on your match scoresheet/registration sheet. Even if the misspelling is close to the real thing, the stats program may miss it. Chad said maybe in the future our 3GN number will show on the scoresheets, if affiliated.

[Doug H.]

I emailed Chad asking what we could do as Match Directors to make his life easier. His suggestion was to add the shooters 3GN number to the results so I am asking everyone who has signed up for the Northwest Multigun Challenge to give me their 3GN number so that I can put it into the system. We use EZWinscore and I put the 3GN number in the space where the USPSA number normally goes. That way even with a miss spelling, or like me listed as Doug instead of Douglas, he has a second reference to pull off results.

Doug

Edited May 16, 2012 by Doug H.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Crap I gotta find my 3GN Card now.

[atomicferret]

So...the scores are based on the percentage points from our division, right?

I should be on that list, yet I am not.

I only have my score from TXMG, is that why?

[Jesse Tischauser]

So...the scores are based on the percentage points from our division, right?

I should be on that list, yet I am not.

I only have my score from TXMG, is that why?

Yes and double check that your full name that you used to register at 3GN was used by the missing match.

[wugguswhompus]

Im sure there is some issues with competitors names. I competed at Superstition and TX multigun and should be listed somewhere in semi pro...Maybe I just need to place higher and then people will pay attention to who I am. On another note, I thought about changing divisions myself.....I shoot Tac optics right now because that is where the Marine Corps gear puts me....I will never be a top shooter in any class due to some physical and financial issues. But, I use 3 gun as a venue of research and development for the USMC marksmanship program. I would like to switch over to Heavy scope division and shoot in my plate carrier with all the bells and whistles. I will never win a match this way, but I can train others based off of my experiences. Plus I think shooting this Heman-Trooper hybrid class would look awesome......and if im correct, this sport is more so about looking good and having awesome gear....

Edited May 17, 2012 by wugguswhompus

[Kyle O]

There are zero scores for tac-irons. That seem weird? Anyone shooting TI in semi-pro?