Tac optics div question

[Nimitz]

I'm still pretty new to 3-gun & was wondering what kind of optics solutions people go with in the Tac optics div where you can expect to engage both short & mid-long-range targets. I know in Open folks use a combo of red-dot & magnifier or red dot & scope since multiple optics are allowed but what does everyone do in tactical? thx

[Alaskapopo]

I'm still pretty new to 3-gun & was wondering what kind of optics solutions people go with in the Tac optics div where you can expect to engage both short & mid-long-range targets. I know in Open folks use a combo of red-dot & magnifier or red dot & scope since multiple optics are allowed but what does everyone do in tactical? thx

A good low power variable like the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x scope is the best in both open and tactical in my opinion. There are also a lot of other good choices. I run the same rifle in both open and tac optics. I just remove the bi pod and cover the side red dot when shooting tac optics. Truth be told I seldom use the red dot unless its a stage where the targets are very close (less than 10 yards) and I have to shoot them on the move. I have found that 1x on the scope is better if your stationary because of the larger field of view.

In this stage below I was debating using my off set red dot but decided to use the 1x setting on my scope and it turned out to be easy this way.

[Alaskapopo]

Now on this stage the off set red dot helped a bit. (I shot the stage both ways.)

With red dot

(tac optics with scope on 1x)

The point is 1x on a good scope is good enough. You don't need off set irons. You also really don't need magnification greater than 4 or 6x in 99% of matches out there.

Side not a red dot with a magnifier is allowed in tac optics since the red dot not the magnifier is the optic. However this set up is less than ideal for the game. The magnifier has a small field of view and shorter eye relief. Then there is the fact most red dots don't have hold over points and they are not exactly friendly for people who like to dial between stages.

If you do want to go with a higher magnification main optic you can always run off set iron sights. I tried this set up for a while on my work gun.

Pat

Edited April 10, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[MarkCO]

Pat has aptly illustrated what many consider to be the cadillac, the Z6i. For a more modest budget, the Burris 1x4 MTAC is the best bet on the market in the under $1000.00 category.

[Jadeslade]

I'm still pretty new to 3-gun & was wondering what kind of optics solutions people go with in the Tac optics div where you can expect to engage both short & mid-long-range targets. I know in Open folks use a combo of red-dot & magnifier or red dot & scope since multiple optics are allowed but what does everyone do in tactical? thx

Variable scope. Trijicon Accupoints are good. Swarovskis are good but they need a battery and the reticles are really busy. The main thing is to shoot a lot and practice your hold-offs and holdovers. Keep both eyes open at 1x at least.

[michael1778]

Pat has aptly illustrated what many consider to be the cadillac, the Z6i. For a more modest budget, the Burris 1x4 MTAC is the best bet on the market in the under $1000.00 category.

I'll ask this in the thread instead of a PM to keep the education value as high as possible.

Mark, are the bullet drop dot markings on the MTAC 1-4x set up for 62grain M855 ammo and similar ballistics? I'm thinking very strongly about picking up an MTAC in the next week or two. Thanks.

Edited April 10, 2012 by michael1778

[Alaskapopo]

I'm still pretty new to 3-gun & was wondering what kind of optics solutions people go with in the Tac optics div where you can expect to engage both short & mid-long-range targets. I know in Open folks use a combo of red-dot & magnifier or red dot & scope since multiple optics are allowed but what does everyone do in tactical? thx

Variable scope. Trijicon Accupoints are good. Swarovskis are good but they need a battery and the reticles are really busy. The main thing is to shoot a lot and practice your hold-offs and holdovers. Keep both eyes open at 1x at least.

I love the Accupoint as well and I run one on my SCAR17 in heavy tac optics. However I disagree with you on the Swarovski. First off you don't actually need batteries. It is a functional scope with a black reticle so if the batteries did go dead on you you can still shoot well just not quite as fast in my case. Some people actually like black reticles. As for the BRT reticle I find it very simple. You have a center dot that is illuminated that you shoot like a red dot sight with out to 200 yards. Past that you use the hold over marks which are as simple as you can get. This is nota Horus reticle we are talking about that is a christmas tree. The BRT reticle is simple.

Now somethings I like about the Accupoint vs the Swarovski. The eye box is more forgiving so I am slightly faster with it on 1x and its easier when shooting left shoulder by a lot. What I don't like about the Accupoint is the glass is not as clear and you don't have hold over marks. Its also difficult to hold over because the post gets in the way. I dial my accupoint in for a 200 yard zero on the tip on the triangle and use the bottom edge for 300 yards. Past that I have not shot it nor do I want to.

I agree that the Burris MTAC is a great scope in its price range and I normally steer new shooters towards it. Another good choice is the Vortex HS 1-4.

[Merlin Orr]

Meopta Optics MEOSTAR 1-4x22 (K-Dot Illum.)

[MarkCO]

Pat has aptly illustrated what many consider to be the cadillac, the Z6i. For a more modest budget, the Burris 1x4 MTAC is the best bet on the market in the under $1000.00 category.

I'll ask this in the thread instead of a PM to keep the education value as high as possible.

Mark, are the bullet drop dot markings on the MTAC 1-4x set up for 62grain M855 ammo and similar ballistics? I'm thinking very strongly about picking up an MTAC in the next week or two. Thanks.

Yes. However, I have the MOA of the dots memorized and I use actual data for the loads to figure my holds. No matter what scope you have, if it has "yardage" BDC, it is only correct for one load at one set of environmental conditions.

[TMC]

The main thing is to shoot a lot and practice your hold-offs and holdovers. Keep both eyes open at 1x at least.

yup!

[Nimitz]

so it would appear the consensus is that a variable power scope like a Burris MTAC30 or Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x or Leupold low power 1-4x is the way to go vice a red dot optic in tactical. Right now the only matches I can shoot are at my local club & all rifle stages are under 50 yds due to the size of our action arera bays. I assume the recommendation is still the same? Also, I'd lioke something with some flexibility in case I'm able to go shoot matches which have longer rifle stages ...

[Alaskapopo]

so it would appear the consensus is that a variable power scope like a Burris MTAC30 or Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x or Leupold low power 1-4x is the way to go vice a red dot optic in tactical. Right now the only matches I can shoot are at my local club & all rifle stages are under 50 yds due to the size of our action arera bays. I assume the recommendation is still the same? Also, I'd lioke something with some flexibility in case I'm able to go shoot matches which have longer rifle stages ...

50 yards is short so a red dot would not be a handicap at all but you might as well shoot limited then. Unless they use some really small reduced targets or lots of no shoots to make the shots more challenging. If you want to go to other clubs and shoot tactical you will want a good low power variable.

Pat

Edited April 11, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Religious Shooter]

If you are willing to spend a $1K on an optic, I'd wait to see how the SWFA 1-6 turns out.

[Nimitz]

Sometimes they put 8" white paper plates on the targets for the rifle stages but I'm not sure if that would even be small enough to make a low power scope a better option then a red dot?

I had heard that there was a rule change where you could now have an optic in limited? If true, what's the real difference between limited & tactical now?

Also, spending $1000 for a scope is not realistic as my Bushmaster MOE M4 only cost $950 ...

[Nimitz]

finally found the 2012 addendum for USPSA 3-gun so now I understand the difference between limited & tactical so yes, I'll be shooting limited at my club

[Alaskapopo]

Sometimes they put 8" white paper plates on the targets for the rifle stages but I'm not sure if that would even be small enough to make a low power scope a better option then a red dot?

I had heard that there was a rule change where you could now have an optic in limited? If true, what's the real difference between limited & tactical now?

Also, spending $1000 for a scope is not realistic as my Bushmaster MOE M4 only cost $950 ...

As a rule of thumb spending as much on the optic as the rifle is a good idea. I would rather have a reliable 2 moa rifle with a great optic than a .5moa rifle with a crappy optic.

Pat

[Nimitz]

fair enough ... I thought that might be wrong about the time I hit the 'send' button. If it turns out that I'll be shooting only short range CoFs is there one red dot optic for my rifle that stands out above the rest?

[Lead-Head]

I just built my first TO rifle last month after several years of shooting irons, and I did not break the bank to do it.

My optic, Burris TAC-30, 1-4, CQ reticle, WARNE Ramp mount. Only shot it at two matches, but i like it so far and it was only $275.

Shot it out to 400yrds last weekend, reticle works as advertised.

I spent the $$$ i saved on a switchview & tac latch. Things i never needed before.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Lead-Head

[ccoker]

If 90+% of your shots are 100 yards or less there is no reason not to run a red dot

If they are all at 50 or under a red dot would be my preference and recommendation over any scope

With a red dot it is easy to make headshots at 100 yards on IPSC targets

[Nimitz]

that's what I was thinking. I'm checking with the other club in my area that does 3-gun but I don't think I'll have the opportunity to be shooting at ranges above 100 yds any time soon.

Anybody care to recommend an Aimpoint model that won't break the bank?

[Nimitz]

also, what's a 'switch view & tac latch' ?

[ccoker]

I run a T1 and love it

But I would say get the Patrol model for lime 350 and you will be happy with it

Our local match is 95% under one hundred yards with a few shots at 250 and 450

This is the same place they are holding the Texas multi gun at

One of my buddies is RO and he has been helping with the stages

He said most of it is 90 or under and one stage has out to 450

I have seen guys just fire off a few shots at 450 fast with a red dot and move on

In fact he told me he wa seriously considering running his upper with an aimpoint and not the upper with a Z6

[ccoker]

I should add that with a red dot hitting 18" plates at 250 is easy

Not trying to talk you out of a scope

I am an optics junkie and have a new 1-6 coming today

Just that it doesn't sound like you need one for what you are doing

[gng4life]

If you are willing to spend a $1K on an optic, I'd wait to see how the SWFA 1-6 turns out.

I like that idea and went to buy one. Then I noticed it's not out yet so I wrote them. All they are saying is that it will be out late Spring/early Summer so that is one I'm going with. Thanks!

[Nimitz]

agreed. I can't see where a scope would be preferable over a red dot at this point either. If I ever were to get into a position where long range rifle shooting was the norm I'd start to get serious about a variable power scope ... thanks!