bikerburgess Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I was thinking about some of the problems we run into designing stages that are fun and challenging but won't be a bugger to score and will keep matches moving. One of the items that I thought of was, it would be nice to be able to put no shoot targets in front of things like plate rakes and swingers to force movement or increase shot difficulty. the problem is 1 shot through a no shoot taking down a plate or popper and you have a re-shoot, or through a no-shoot and into a moving target and you are stuck trying to figure out which hole in the target should not count. My thought was modify the rules to allow the WSB to designate certain no-shoot targets as soft cover. if hit they would still incur penalties but the targets behind would still score. What do you think. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Another item what ain't broke ... If you're having this problem, try using steel no shoots. Then you don't have to worry about stuff going through it. Allowing scoring of targets (shoot or no shoot) after passing through a penalty target is a can of worms you really don't want to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 9.1.5 Impenetrable – The scoring area of USPSA scoring targets and noshoots is deemed to be impenetrable: Rule says you can't do it. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I was thinking about some of the problems we run into designing stages that are fun and challenging but won't be a bugger to score and will keep matches moving. One of the items that I thought of was, it would be nice to be able to put no shoot targets in front of things like plate rakes and swingers to force movement or increase shot difficulty. the problem is 1 shot through a no shoot taking down a plate or popper and you have a re-shoot, or through a no-shoot and into a moving target and you are stuck trying to figure out which hole in the target should not count. My thought was modify the rules to allow the WSB to designate certain no-shoot targets as soft cover. if hit they would still incur penalties but the targets behind would still score. What do you think. Mike There is a shooting sport that allows that already! Try IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 I know it is against the rules I was posing the question of changing them to allow it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I know it is against the rules I was posing the question of changing them to allow it oops, got it! Increase difficulty? Put the plate rack at 30 yards. Swingers? Adjust your props so you can only see the swinger mid-swing, not at the ends of the arc. And, as the meister said, use steel no-shoots. Plenty of ways to make stages more interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 No shoots behind a star can be pretty intimidating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I know it is against the rules I was posing the question of changing them to allow it No need to. Just use something other than a target for the soft cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I know it is against the rules I was posing the question of changing them to allow it No need to. Just use something other than a target for the soft cover. Could you elaborate? The OP was hoping to apply no shoot penalties for shooting through the soft cover. I can see how the rules allow the designer to designate various things to be soft cover. But can a designer also say that there is a per hit procedural for shooting through the soft cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I was thinking about some of the problems we run into designing stages that are fun and challenging but won't be a bugger to score and will keep matches moving. One of the items that I thought of was, it would be nice to be able to put no shoot targets in front of things like plate rakes and swingers to force movement or increase shot difficulty. the problem is 1 shot through a no shoot taking down a plate or popper and you have a re-shoot, or through a no-shoot and into a moving target and you are stuck trying to figure out which hole in the target should not count. My thought was modify the rules to allow the WSB to designate certain no-shoot targets as soft cover. if hit they would still incur penalties but the targets behind would still score. What do you think. Mike It's not a problem if you use a metal no-shoot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Could you elaborate? The OP was hoping to apply no shoot penalties for shooting through the soft cover. I can see how the rules allow the designer to designate various things to be soft cover. But can a designer also say that there is a per hit procedural for shooting through the soft cover? No ... soft cover is just that, soft cover. No harm, no foul. Whatever you hit on the other side scores. (Be it Good or Bad.) To declare a penalty for shooting through soft cover would be a contravention of the rules as the rules say you can shoot through soft cover. The WSB cannot contravine the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Increase difficulty? Put the plate rack at 30 yards. Uff... That would be evil!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Increase difficulty? Put the plate rack at 30 yards. Uff... That would be evil!!! Not that evil, if you've shot Bianchi..... ....since Bianchi goes out to 25, and is Virginia Count on steel.... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The OP was hoping to apply no shoot penalties for shooting through the soft cover. That's not how I read it. As I understood the original post, the object was to obscure the steel targets and force the shooter to shoot from a different location. Of course, you could use hard cover but the OP wanted to try and use a no-shoot as soft cover. Well, you can't do that but all kinds of things can be used as soft cover, so why not just use something that really is soft cover. Hang an old T-shirt over a wood frame and you have a piece of soft cover about the same size as a no-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hang an old T-shirt over a wood frame and you have a piece of soft cover about the same size as a no-shoot. Sneaky ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I understand the rules as they are, and how they affect stage management, scoring and flow. What I was looking for feed back on, was the idea of giving the stage designer another tool to create new and different shooting challenges that would not adversely affect match flow and scoring. there are many rules in our rule book that the WSB can over ride, why not one more? think how much fun it would be to have a array of shoot targets with a no shoot swinger moving in front of it. One negative I can see i it could be abused to make up for sloppy layout or design. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 think how much fun it would be to have a array of shoot targets with a no shoot swinger moving in front of it. So, I take it from this that your intent is to create some kind of no-shoot soft cover? IOW, it's soft cover so any shots that go through it count but hits on it count for penalty? If so, then I misread your original post and my suggestion would not work. It's an interesting idea and I know of places where I would very much like to use it but it would essentially call for a third class of target (shoot, no-shoot, soft no-shoot) and that could get tricky. It would have to have some kind of distinctive marking so that people could know exactly what it was just by looking at it. Maybe you need to start lobbying USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I understand the rules as they are, and how they affect stage management, scoring and flow. What I was looking for feed back on, was the idea of giving the stage designer another tool to create new and different shooting challenges that would not adversely affect match flow and scoring I think you've got your feedback. Most of us think this is a bad idea. There are many rules in our rule book that the WSB can over ride, why not one more? The WSB cannot override ANY rule in the rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I guess "override" was the wrong word, many of the rules include some form of the phrase "unless otherwise stated in the written stage briefing" Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I guess "override" was the wrong word, many of the rules include some form of the phrase "unless otherwise stated in the written stage briefing" Mike OK. I'm with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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