BERRYS OR BAYOU

[Trident]

Thank you all for your replies. I am ordering Bayou 147gr in the morning. I have a little titegroup left. I was going to order more titegroup but a lot of people dont seem to like it. I would love to go with N320 but I really dont want to pay that much for powder. Any other options that would be a good substitute for titegroup. I am loading for uspsa production so I am looking to stay around 130 power factor. I want something that meters well, is consistent, and doesnt cost an arm and a leg like N320.

Thanks

So titegroup will cost maybe 0.8 cents per round and VVN320 or 330 will cost about 1.4 ...I guess I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of powder. Alot more money to be saved in cases or buying bullets & primers....and of course buying everything in bulk.

Funny how you see this all the time .25 to .5 cent per round somehow makes N320 way too expensive when the round, case and primer should be the real expenses...... too expensive really ???????

[DRAB81]

Thank you all for your replies. I am ordering Bayou 147gr in the morning. I have a little titegroup left. I was going to order more titegroup but a lot of people dont seem to like it. I would love to go with N320 but I really dont want to pay that much for powder. Any other options that would be a good substitute for titegroup. I am loading for uspsa production so I am looking to stay around 130 power factor. I want something that meters well, is consistent, and doesnt cost an arm and a leg like N320.

Thanks

So titegroup will cost maybe 0.8 cents per round and VVN320 or 330 will cost about 1.4 ...I guess I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of powder. Alot more money to be saved in cases or buying bullets & primers....and of course buying everything in bulk.

Funny how you see this all the time .25 to .5 cent per round somehow makes N320 way too expensive when the round, case and primer should be the real expenses...... too expensive really ???????

When you break it down to the additional cost per round, or even per K, the numbers seem insignificant. It's usually around $8-$10 per K more with VV powder, and a lot of guys switch bullets to save less money per K. When you look at it from bulk pricing, it's almost TWICE the price. Let's use TG & N320 as an example since they use nearly identical charge weights. You can load the same number of rounds at practically half the cost, using TG. I don't have a horse in this race, I use WST & WSF now, but this is why I choose not to use VV powders (along with availability).

To the question, I've had terrible luck with Berry's & accuracy. I tried different charges, OAL's & crimps, and nothing seemed to change. I've had excellent results with Bear Creek Moly's, so between the two I'd go with the Bayou's.

.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MEAT

[CocoBolo]

Thank you all for your replies. I am ordering Bayou 147gr in the morning. I have a little titegroup left. I was going to order more titegroup but a lot of people dont seem to like it. I would love to go with N320 but I really dont want to pay that much for powder. Any other options that would be a good substitute for titegroup. I am loading for uspsa production so I am looking to stay around 130 power factor. I want something that meters well, is consistent, and doesnt cost an arm and a leg like N320.

Thanks

So titegroup will cost maybe 0.8 cents per round and VVN320 or 330 will cost about 1.4 ...I guess I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of powder. Alot more money to be saved in cases or buying bullets & primers....and of course buying everything in bulk.

Funny how you see this all the time .25 to .5 cent per round somehow makes N320 way too expensive when the round, case and primer should be the real expenses...... too expensive really ???????

When you break it down to the additional cost per round, or even per K, the numbers seem insignificant. It's usually around $8-$10 per K more with VV powder, and a lot of guys switch bullets to save less money per K. When you look at it from bulk pricing, it's almost TWICE the price. Let's use TG & N320 as an example since they use nearly identical charge weights. You can load the same number of rounds at practically half the cost, using TG. I don't have a horse in this race, I use WST & WSF now, but this is why I choose not to use VV powders (along with availability).

To the question, I've had terrible luck with Berry's & accuracy. I tried different charges, OAL's & crimps, and nothing seemed to change. I've had excellent results with Bear Creek Moly's, so between the two I'd go with the Bayou's.

.

WST works great with the Bayou's, and you can get an 8# jug, so its nice an cheap. TiteGroup to me has more thump it is dirty and it over heats the gun, so it is cheap hot and dirty. The price of N320 should not be a deal breaker, just get water with a couple meals instead of a Coke and you are back in the black! A pound of powder loads about 1500 rounds powder is the cheapest component even VV. I use VV with jacketed bullets it makes a difference with Bayou's WST is just as good. I sold all the titegroup I had.

I tried the Berries and the Rainers and if you load them just right they aren't bad but for the money I'd go with Montana Gold over them and they are IDIOT proof.

[Trident]

When you break it down to the additional cost per round, or even per K, the numbers seem insignificant. It's usually around $8-$10 per K more with VV powder, and a lot of guys switch bullets to save less money per K. When you look at it from bulk pricing, it's almost TWICE the price. Let's use TG & N320 as an example since they use nearly identical charge weights. You can load the same number of rounds at practically half the cost, using TG. I don't have a horse in this race, I use WST & WSF now, but this is why I choose not to use VV powders (along with availability).

To the question, I've had terrible luck with Berry's & accuracy. I tried different charges, OAL's & crimps, and nothing seemed to change. I've had excellent results with Bear Creek Moly's, so between the two I'd go with the Bayou's.

"When you look at it from bulk pricing, it's almost TWICE the price. Let's use TG & N320 as an example since they use nearly identical charge weights. You can load the same number of rounds at practically half the cost, using TG."

First your claim of twice as much could be seen as misleading. Maybe twice as much of the "powder" expense of the equation which for my load is less than 1.5 cents per round so your talking about a difference of less than .75 cent per round. So you are making a decision to not use a great powder for less than .75 cent a pound, $10.00 per 1000, 100.00 / 10,000 rounds for something hot, dirty, and temp sensitive. Simply ridiculous. The powder cost is the smallest cost of the whole equation. The cost per 100 is less than a coke, way less than a pack, a beer or any of the other things one wastes money on.

I have attached my cost breakdowns NOT using bulk prices for any componants so someone won't reply saying they can only buy in low volume. Note that these costs include haz mat and shipping costs at the 1 pound VV cost. I just bought #19 VV N320 that should bring the cost per round down using bulk prices which BTW is still within a penny.

"TiteGroup to me has more thump it is dirty and it over heats the gun, so it is cheap hot and dirty." This was my experience as well plus temperate sensitive.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Trident

[DRAB81]

"When you break it down to the additional cost per round, or even per K, the numbers seem insignificant. It's usually around $8-$10 per K more with VV powder, and a lot of guys switch bullets to save less money per K. When you look at it from bulk pricing, it's almost TWICE the price. Let's use TG & N320 as an example since they use nearly identical charge weights. You can load the same number of rounds at practically half the cost, using TG. I don't have a horse in this race, I use WST & WSF now, but this is why I choose not to use VV powders (along with availability).

To the question, I've had terrible luck with Berry's & accuracy. I tried different charges, OAL's & crimps, and nothing seemed to change. I've had excellent results with Bear Creek Moly's, so between the two I'd go with the Bayou's."

First your claim of twice as much could be seen as misleading. Maybe twice as much of the "powder" expense of the equation which for my load is less than 1.5 cents per round so your talking about a difference of less than .75 cent per round. So you are making a decision to not use a great powder for less than .75 cent a pound, $10.00 per 1000, 100.00 / 10,000 rounds for something hot, dirty, and temp sensitive. Simply ridiculous. The powder cost is the smallest cost of the whole equation. The cost per 100 is less than a coke, way less than a pack, a beer or any of the other things one wastes money on.

I have attached my cost breakdowns NOT using bulk prices for any componants so someone won't reply saying they can only buy in low volume. Note that these costs include haz mat and shipping costs at the 1 pound VV cost. I just bought #19 VV N320 that should bring the cost per round down using bulk prices which BTW is still within a penny.

Again, I DO NOT USE TITEGROUP. And again, I was just using it as an example because it typically uses the same charge weights as N320.

Powder Valley Pricing:

4# N320 = $96.70

4# Titegroup = $56.15

4# of Titegroup costs 58% of what 4# of N320 costs, which like I said is pretty damn close to half.

Using a common 9mm Minor charge of 3.5gr for both powders, this is what you get for your cost:

4# N320 = 8000rds @ 3.5gr = $96.70

4# TG = 8000rds @ 3.5gr = $56.15

I don't think you're a bad person for using VV powder, and I wasn't attacking you. I'm just not going to break it down to fractions of pennies per round to make myself feel better about using it. Use what you like, I just choose not to buy VV powder, so just look at it as more on the shelf for you.

All I'm saying is that you can either pay $96.70 to load 8000rds, or $56.15 to load 8000rds. Of course thats just for the powder, and you still have to account for the HM fee & shipping cost.

[Trident]

Again, I DO NOT USE TITEGROUP. And again, I was just using it as an example because it typically uses the same charge weights as N320.

Powder Valley Pricing:

4# N320 = $96.70

4# Titegroup = $56.15

4# of Titegroup costs 58% of what 4# of N320 costs, which like I said is pretty damn close to half.

Using a common 9mm Minor charge of 3.5gr for both powders, this is what you get for your cost:

4# N320 = 8000rds @ 3.5gr = $96.70

4# TG = 8000rds @ 3.5gr = $56.15

I don't think you're a bad person for using VV powder, and I wasn't attacking you. I'm just not going to break it down to fractions of pennies per round to make myself feel better about using it. Use what you like, I just choose not to buy VV powder, so just look at it as more on the shelf for you.

All I'm saying is that you can either pay $96.70 to load 8000rds, or $56.15 to load 8000rds. Of course thats just for the powder, and you still have to account for the HM fee & shipping cost.

I appreciate your post and I have seen it often and always shake my head in wonder how the cost of powder, of all things, can make that big of a difference in ones decision as it is by far the least expensive of all of it.

No offense taken or given and your about right. Sorry, I forgot to attach a photo of my cost spreadsheet so I did here.

So.....lets not break it down to fractions of pennies per round lets figure it to a years worth a shooting for many shall we?

With your numbers your right to shoot $8000 rounds, at my current approx. cost , would be $1120.00 with N320 a clean, consistent, accurate, and so far great powder, which is a whopping $40.00 more than TG, a hot, dirty, temp sensitive powder. That is .08 per bullet, .032 per primer and .019 for the powder. For many thats is a years worth of shooting (8000 rounds) for a $40.00 savings, in powder, which is not enough for me to worry about and surely not enough for me to make a decision not to use. $40.00 a year? That was lunch today.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Trident

[a matt]

Good points.

[DRAB81]

I appreciate your post and I have seen it often and always shake my head in wonder how the cost of powder, of all things, can make that big of a difference in ones decision as it is by far the least expensive of all of it.

No offense taken or given and your about right. Sorry, I forgot to attach a photo of my cost spreadsheet so I did here.

So.....lets not break it down to fractions of pennies per round lets figure it to a years worth a shooting for many shall we?

With your numbers your right to shoot $8000 rounds, at my current approx. cost , would be $1120.00 with N320 a clean, consistent, accurate, and so far great powder, which is a whopping $40.00 more than TG, a hot, dirty, temp sensitive powder. That is .08 per bullet, .032 per primer and .019 for the powder. For many thats is a years worth of shooting (8000 rounds) for a $40.00 savings, in powder, which is not enough for me to worry about and surely not enough for me to make a decision not to use. $40.00 a year? That was lunch today.

Just for sake of conversation, let's also look at the cost of bullets then. According to your table, you're loading MG FMJ's, even though JHP's are considered to be a better bullet, both being objectively cleaner and more accurate.

MG Pricing (bought by the case)

124gr FMJ = $84.53 per K or 676.26 per 8K

124gr JHP = $86.66 per K or $693.28 per 8K

I'll use 8k rounds again, like you said, being about a year supply of ammo. The difference between JHP's and FMJ's over an 8000rd year's supply is a whopping $17. Yet many people choose not to spend that extra $17 on JHP's over FMJ's. 

It's all about perspective, and what you'd rather cut corners on. It's the same story with primers. A lot of guys will buy crappy primers to save less than $40 over 8000rds. It shouldn't matter which of the components the money is saved/spent on loading 8K rounds, $40 is $40.

I should have just used WST as the example instead of TG...

[Trident]

I appreciate your post and I have seen it often and always shake my head in wonder how the cost of powder, of all things, can make that big of a difference in ones decision as it is by far the least expensive of all of it.

No offense taken or given and your about right. Sorry, I forgot to attach a photo of my cost spreadsheet so I did here.

So.....lets not break it down to fractions of pennies per round lets figure it to a years worth a shooting for many shall we?

With your numbers your right to shoot $8000 rounds, at my current approx. cost , would be $1120.00 with N320 a clean, consistent, accurate, and so far great powder, which is a whopping $40.00 more than TG, a hot, dirty, temp sensitive powder. That is .08 per bullet, .032 per primer and .019 for the powder. For many thats is a years worth of shooting (8000 rounds) for a $40.00 savings, in powder, which is not enough for me to worry about and surely not enough for me to make a decision not to use. $40.00 a year? That was lunch today.

Just for sake of conversation, let's also look at the cost of bullets then. According to your table, you're loading MG FMJ's, even though JHP's are considered to be a better bullet, both being objectively cleaner and more accurate.

MG Pricing (bought by the case)

124gr FMJ = $84.53 per K or 676.26 per 8K

124gr JHP = $86.66 per K or $693.28 per 8K

I'll use 8k rounds again, like you said, being about a year supply of ammo. The difference between JHP's and FMJ's over an 8000rd year's supply is a whopping $17. Yet many people choose not to spend that extra $17 on JHP's over FMJ's. 

It's all about perspective, and what you'd rather cut corners on. It's the same story with primers. A lot of guys will buy crappy primers to save less than $40 over 8000rds. It shouldn't matter which of the components the money is saved/spent on loading 8K rounds, $40 is $40.

I should have just used WST as the example instead of TG...

Sorry about that... I mistyped FMJ instead of CMJ as I have never used MG FMJ but I also have and use MG 124g JHP, MG 147g CMJ, Berries (Several) , and lately Bayou to test. Your point is well taken and I agree with you and still don't understand why folks buy crappy powder or primers or even plated vs. MG jacketed bullets, since they both are 8 cents ea., to save what really amounts to very little and in the big picture $40.00 is well........really?

[Flexmoney]

We get the math. People can make their own choices, based on the number. Back on topic, please! - Admin.

[sbpt1911]

1332880625[/url]' post='1670027']

1332868622[/url]' post='1669889']

Bayou's stink something bad. obviously coming from the green coating- what is it???

Soylent Green:)

[kcinnick]

1332880625[/url]' post='1670027']

1332868622[/url]' post='1669889']

Bayou's stink something bad. obviously coming from the green coating- what is it???

Soylent Green:)

Bayou bullets are great, much better than Berry's

Donnie is just about to the point where he can double production. The smell is the carrier for the lubricant. The smell should be reduced or eliminated in the near future.

[Tul9033]

Bayou's are awfully smelly, almost caustic. Made me wonder if it was bad for me. Berry's switched to all double struck bullets, wonder if that was an attempt to fix some of the issues they were having (accuracy, separation). Berry's as also swaged vs cast, what difference that makes I don't know.