3 Gun Nats Equipment

[kellyn]

Since Front Sight does not cover the equipment used in the 3 Gun Nats, I thought I would throw in some of my observations:

1) Open class

M. Voigt used an AR that would have been legal in Tactical class with a 20 in barrel, JP BC comp, Hogue handguard, redi-Mag and an ACOG TA11. He shot 75 grain Hornady bullets. His shotgun is the Benelli that he has relied on the past few years, with a JP or Doctor dot on it. I don't know what pistol.

Matt Burkett also used a rifle that would have been legal in tactical (except the bipod). A full sized AR with what I thought was a Triangle Sports comp and an ACOG TA11. Matt has also mastered the use of the ACOG as an occulded gunsight for close range shots by blocking off the objective. I don't know what pistol or shotgun.

2) Tactical class

I never got to see Taran's equipment but I've been told that he used a Trijicon 1-4X Accupoint for a scope. I'm sure he used a Benelli shotgun and SV pistol.

I used a JP-DSA AR with a DSA IOR 1.1-4X scope with the CQB reticle. The scope is nice but I would change the CQB reticle by losing the horizontal lines, the range finding circles, and the mil stadia line. Instead, I would add a BDC along the lines of the JP ACOG beneath the horseshoe dot. I shot the incredibly accurate 69 grain Nosler with AA2230-C. I would have shot the 75s had I know how much wind I would face when I shot stage 15. I relied on my tired Remington 1187 (which failed on stages 11 and 12) and have been convinced by Kurt M and Benny Hill to switch to a Benelli. I used three chokes in this match (improved, modifed and full) and relied on Federal 7 1/2s, ounce and an 1/8 3 dram load. My pistol was .40 on an STI frame with 180 Zero bullets with Titegroup powder.

3) Limited Class

I did not get to see too much of Benny Cooley but he I'm sure he used a full sized JP AR, his Browning shotgun, and a six in STI .40. Benny usually shoots 75 Hornadys in his AR.

Kurt used a fullsized AR of his own making with a front sight mounted near the comp (which is SWEET), freefloating fiber handguard, JP trigger. He shot 55 grain Sierra BlitzKings. His pistol was a Benny Hill fat free 6 in and the shotgun was his old ugly cammo Benelli with a modified choke.

Overall I would note that

1) Trijicon is the dominant scope, the donut reticle TA11 being the most popular.

2) The full sized AR is still king. 16s don't cut it.

3) Despite my love of variables, you don't need one to win.

4) No bullet weight is predominant in rifles but most of the good shooters seem rely on quality bullets

5) You don't need the 2 scope setup on rifles to win and people come up with some really -shall we say- interesting 2 scope systems.

6) Shotgun reliability is paramount, giving Benellis an edge (but I still prefer to shoot Remmys!)

Please post any other observations that you made.

[uscbigdawg]

Open:

Voigt's pistol was probably an STI frame and from there everything else he does.

Burkett's shotgun is the full Grams Engineering Package Benelli (and that damn thing runs!) and his pistol is an SV.

General Observations:

In shooting Open exclusively for 3-Gun, I've noticed more and more that I need my bi-pod less and less. However, I'll still keep it in the bag for rifle positions where it starts (and grounds that way). I talked a lot with Curt from Trijicon about optics and I REALLY like the Accu-Point, for it's variable settings. However, like Kelly says, picking up targets at close range CAN be learned with a fixed power scope. The new glass will definitely be a Trijicon though.

The rifle is a Colt lower, JP trigger, etc. I'm switching to the ACE stock (high cool factor). The upper is a Colt FT receiver, JP steel bolt carrier (but will be switching to the LMOS), 18" 1:8 Oly barrel and JP-BC comp. Handguard is a JP with mounts for slings, bi-pods and dots in necessary places.

For shotgun, it's gotta run and Open guys, you've got to work on the Tec-Loaders (myself included unless you're Kurt Miller and out load a Tec-Loader...nice job on my stage Hoover Vac). I run a fully hoo-hahed Briley Remington but am considering switching to either a Benelli or something else that I can get from Beven Grams. I like the lighter gun for running around as I'm delicate. Too, they're just built better and are inherently more reliable. I'm not abandoning the idea of going with a Gold, but need to see some solid parts for accepting Tec-Loaders before I'll go that route. Lastly, there will definitely be a dot on the gun. and it'll be a JPoint/Optima.

For pistol. Rusty Kidd Pit Viper forever!

Advice for new guys:

Regardless of the range, you've got to take care of your equipment. If it touches the ground (i.e. mags) clean it. If you just came off a hosin' rifle stage and have an "accuracy" one, Boresnakes are cheap and make things psychologically (for me anyways) run happy. Same goes for the shotgun. Carry a little spray cleaner & lubricant of your choice if things start running funny. Auto parts brake cleaner is great (and cheap). Corrosion X rules! In general, if you're not using your gun, bag it or case it and keep it out of the elements.

Rich

[Chuck Anderson]

In Tactical Dave Neth was using an AR with the 3.5 x 35 Trijicon mounted on it, Winchester SX2 and Glock 40 cal pistol at MGM, I assume he was using the same here.

I ended up using my JP AR 20" with the Leupold CQ/T, Reminton 1100 that looks like it was dragged behind a truck, and shot like it too, and an SV 40, built by EGW, lightened slide, bushing Bar-Sto Bbl. I love this gun.

The CQ/T seemed to be a really good scope for this match with one exception. The black reticle tended to disappear unless it was right on the white poppers. This was really apparent on Bay 6, the truck bed stage. With the black background targets they were using the reticle was really tough to spot.

Chuck Anderson

[uscbigdawg]

Chuck,

Sweet pistol. Got a great look at you crankin' on that thing on my stage from the bridge. Good job at the match and thanks for helping with the prize table.

Rich

[ErikW]

(re: Voigt) AR that would have been legal in Tactical ... He shot 75 grain Hornady bullets ... I don't know what pistol

I was going to ask if he used an offset iron sight or something but your description of MB's occluded ACOG makes me think MV uses a cover on hosers?

Hornady, hmmm... I thought he was sponsored by Nosler.

His pistol is an STI with a C-More. I seem to remember a hybrid but I'm not sure. It's not like it mattered a whole lot for this match.

I know kurtm and Taran used Benellis. I lost count with Taran at the preload table and he had to unload and reload, so I got a good look at it. It had lightening cuts on the bolt. Kurt had a Yankee Hill rear sight and a flip-up front on a 20" rifle.

Travis and the Army guys had at least one FN lower with a BURST selector position. Of course the one guy had the can, and the whole rifle was camo'd.

There were a bunch of Optima-type secondary sights on Open rifles. Ralph Arredondo displayed a rifle, which I think he shot, with an Optima/Docter/whatever on the flattop and a scope canted off to the side, a reverse of the usual.

uscbigdawg was seen slipping an Aimpoint on and off the handguard of his rifle, which would DQ him from the RO match, the results of which are only figments of our imaginations.

Oh, hey, don't forget the M1A and the few Mini-14s. Other than that, there wasn't so much as a FAL or HK seen at previous 3GNs. Unless I didn't see them because they were DQed before they got to my stage.

There were a whole lot more Trijicon Accupoints than I recall seeing before. One squad was almost entirely equipped with that rifle scope. Bear1142 showed me how you can turn a shield to dim the triangle and make it a simple black post reticle and I got all hot and bothered. And you can flip down the objective cover, open up the light-gathering area, and use it to hose down the short range stages. Mongo impressed!

Oh yeah, there were a ton of Competition Masters. The Army ones were rusting.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Erik Warren

[uscbigdawg]

His pistol is an STI with a C-More. I seem to remember a hybrid but I'm not sure.

MV doesn't run a hybrid.

uscbigdawg was seen slipping an Aimpoint on and off the handguard of his rifle, which would DQ him from the RO match, the results of which are only figments of our imaginations.

Is this illegal? In Open, we're allowed to take our bi-pods off, why not take secondary sights off. As long as you start the first stage with it on, what's the problem? Genuinely curious. Too, I'm used to IMGA rules/procedures.

Rich

[Bear1142]

I'm glad Kelly started this. I was disappointed an equipment survey was not solicited at the match. Next year we'll have to make sure one is prepared. Here is my setup;

Pistol- A very old & tired, 40 cal., SV that just keeps running (5 years), but Rusty Kidd is building the new one as we speak.

Shotgun- Benelli M1 Super 90 (pre-ban) with a 21" vent rib barrel with red fiber optic sight. I am one of the few who use a pistol grip stock on my shotgun, but then again, so does Taran. A small, but distinguished group. I run a 3 gun gear side saddle and use Briley choke tubes. I used Winchester Super Sport handicap loads with # 8's, 1 1/8 oz., @ 1,300 fps. My standard choke is IC, but I did run a modified on one stage and probably should have on another (it probably would have saved me 10-15 seconds and provided the 4 match points I needed to beat Kelly). I, like Kelly had two shotgun jams. Both jams were of the same style and have been plaguing this shotgun and me for the last 2 years. For next year I'll probably sit the Benelli on the bench and give the Browning a try.

Rifle- Bushmaster upper receiver with a JP 18" ultra-light SS barrel, 1/9 twist. JP adjustable gas block (although its not used and I'll probably switch it out), TTI Intl. Eliminator compensator (Similar to a Bushmaster Y-comp., but slightly better), JP Free float tube, Bushmaster lower receiver, Weaver 1-3x20 variable scope with an Armalite quick detach, one piece scope mount. I also use two "non-standard" items, a older style A1 buttstock and I do use the forward vertical pistol grip attached to the Free float tube. I used Federal red box 55 gr. ammo, but did have some Black Hills 69 Sierra Match Kings available if the wind got bad, but in the end I chose not to use them at stayed with the 55's for the entire match.

Observations

General-

Moved to the post-mortem thread at the request of the moderator.

Specific-

I'm going to have to set up a multi-gun specific gear setup. I found myself having two different belt setups with spare mag pouches for my rifle and pistol along extra shotgun ammo holders. On just about every stage I had a re-adjust my belt setup. No consistency. On a couple of stages I remember hunting for things on my belt, not good.

The rifle scope setup worked great for the close stuff, but I would have liked to have a bit more power on the upper end. I think a 1-5 power scope with a true one power reticle would be ideal. Although I will by testing out the Trijicon scope in the off season.

I stayed with the 55 gr. rifle ammo, despite the windy conditions after I noticed the 55's and 69's drifted virtually the same distance out to 300 yards with a cross wind. I didn't want to make click adjustment during the match if I didn't absolutely have too.

The dust got into everything. After the first day, I pulled everything apart and was amazed at how dusty/dirty everything got. After that, all 3 firearms became vampires. When the weren't being used they all got bagged. This included my ammo, I found myself wiping off my shotgun shells before each stage to clean the dust off them. The dust also irritated my eyes. Next year I will bring a set of ski or motocross goggles and wear them to keep the dust out of my eyes. When I'm on deck, I'll swith to my shooting glasses.

The toughest part of the match for me was all the extra mental preparation prior to the stage. Having to work in unloading/loading/transferring guns really increased my prep time and clouded my stage prep. It proved very tough to stay focused on the stage. In the end it worked out, but it was very challenging. I'm going to have to work on multi-gun transfers in my practice routines. Big time saver if you can do it fast.

All in all, I enjoyed the match but it was far tougher than it needed to be. All it did was hammer the shooters (not to mention the RO's) and cause a lot of people to reconsider coming to Reno in the future. Please don't take this criticism the wrong way. Monte, his staff, and all the RO's worked harder than anybody should have to at a match. I am very thankful our sport has such dedicated people. Thank you for your time and effort. I only have issue with how the match was designed and it's administration.

Erik

Edited July 2, 2004 by Bear1142

[kellyn]

Sorry Erik, I thought you were shooting a 16 not an 18.

[davidwiz]

Bear1142, what kind of problems with your Benelli? Was it b/c of the conditions (i.e. dust, dirt) or gun related?

[Bear1142]

Kelly,

No problem. If I could have gotten the barrel contour and setup I wanted in a 16" without paying $500+ dollars for it, I would use the 16". Sorry we didn't get to talk longer, maybe next time. I'd like to hear some more about the DS Arms AR's. Your wife was very charming, I enjoyed our brief talk.

David,

No, the conditions didn't play a factor. I was able to minimize the effects with some judicious cleaning and bagging. I'm having a problem similar to Benny Hill's. As the bolt closes on a live round, somehow the back of the shell gets in front of the extractor and partially out of the ejection port. I don't have to cycle out the round, usually all I have to do is push it back into the port and the bolt will close on it. I've gotten pretty fast at it, but I just can't have a competition gun that won't run 100%.

Erik

[benny hill]

Bear, it was good to see you again. I think I have the problem on the benelli worked out. Will let you know soon. Hope to see you at a match soon.

[ErikW]

Bear1142, could you please cut out the "General" paragraph of your post and put it in a new post in the 3GN "post mortem" topic?

I'll move GAPEACH's entire post there.

This is a guns and gear specific topic. In fact, I might move it into that forum.

[Boulderado]

I surprised myself, to say the least to have preformed as well as I did for a Super Senior at the USPSA 3-gun National in the LIMITED Division using the following equipment:

RIFLE: Colt AR-15, 16 inch HBAR, flat top, 1 in 9 barrel, Totally stock with the following exceptions: Pachmeyer Grip, Alloy tube hand guard, DPMS rear sight, custom Front sight mounted just behind the muzzle break similar to where Kurt Miller's is mounted. AMMO: my load of 55 grain Nosler Balistic tip chronographed at 3050 FPS.

Shotgun: Benelli Old, 12g Benelli, M-1, Super 90, 18 inch barrel, plain rifle sights.

Pistol: Para P-16 .40, Novak sights, 212 grain lead bullets, chrono at 808 FPS.

Best Regards to all,

Darrell Humphrey, Colorado