Dead Buff Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Excuse the Q if it was answered somewhere else - I did a search and didn't find anything (sill searching though....) Can a shooter use a pistol with rifle stock to shoot IPSC rifle matches if he makes factor, etc.? Examples that come to mind are machine pistols like Uzi's, etc, Muser Broomhandles if you want to screw up a collectable, Browning HP's, Glocks or Bul M5's with stock, etc. - 150 PF isn't that high.... I exclude the Wilson carbine conversion for 1911's since this can't be called a pistol any more... Thanx for the advice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hmm, good question. the rules forbid using a stocked handgun in a handgun match. However, I don't see that under the rules there is anything to prohibit a stocked handgun in a rifle match. However.....(and there is always a however) the rules do not allow a select-fire firearm, and require that any firearm used be legally possessed in the jurisdiction of the match. In places like Arizona, I could see a special "AOW" category in club matches. Just don't show up her ein Michigan with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I would think this would be legal: Mech-Tech CCU (click here) ??? To take the question one step further... Can we just use a pistol for rifle shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Flex, that's just a pistol caliber carbine, and they're fine. What he's asking about are shoulder-stocked handguns, like a Mauser, Hi Power, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Oh...I got it now... Like this one? http://www.brayleyballistics.com/acc_glock...ding_stock.html (Glocks sure do have lots of assesories. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yep, something like that and simmilar - legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Well, in that configuration, they are considered short-barreled RIFLES, so I think they should be legal. Never mind the fact that the competitor would be at a huge disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 What makes a "Rifle" anyway? Is there a rules-based reason somebody couldn't just shoot a 150+PF pistol in a rifle stage? I use a Mech-Tech in 38 Super at local (under 75 yard) 3-gun matches. Excellent for those mandatory-reload stages. Also can be holstered in a Ghost or Limcat, should EricW be ROing at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hi All The rule below is relevant to these discussions: 5.1.10 The rifle must be fitted with a stock enabling it to be fired from the shoulder. I seem to recall that the Rifle Rules Committee debated this very same subject but I don't want to be too hasty to state my recollections of the final outcome on the matter. Hopefully Troy will find his way here some time soon and he might be able to shed some light but in addition I will email the topic to Tim Andersen, the Rifle Committee Chairman, to ask him for a comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 As far as I can tell, if it has a shoulder stock, then it's a rifle. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 What makes a "Rifle" anyway? Is there a rules-based reason somebody couldn't just shoot a 150+PF pistol in a rifle stage? I don't know about you, but distances of 100m to 300m would kinda put a damper on things for me trying using a pistol in a rifle match. I already grumble about poppers at 50m in handgun matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 True...but, some of us never see anything over 150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 One of our guys drove a 125gr CMJ Frontier at 1700fps from his .38 Stupid ....sorry Super STI open gun..... with a stock that should do ok out to 200m given the correct sight adjustment? No mag length limit, easier reloads (which make up for only carrying 25 odd rounds)..... Has anyone tried this before - just so by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james h Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 quick note IPSC rules allow selective fire rifles BUT you may not shoot full auto or burst fire s/a only. 1st offense warning and stage zero, second DQ j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjl32 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I don't think the pistol with a rifle stock is legal unless the barrel is 16". There's a reason the shortest barrel you can buy on an AR's is 16" and the civilian M4 knockoffs have an extended flash hider to make 16" on barrel length. I can't remember it now, but there is also a minimum overall length that has to be met with rifles and shotguns even if the barrel is 16". It's a little safer, maybe not by much, to check the ATF website instead of internet forums on any gun legality issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I think the discussion was about international IPSC-legal and not US- BATFE legal. It is true that in the US, 16" is as short as a non-LEO/MIL can go with a shoulder-stock and no AOW/SBR $200 paperwork on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 So what seems to be the bottom line is that yes it is legal to use a pistol with stock as rifle in IPSC - you would just be daft to do it if distances exceed 100-150m...... thanx for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 As far as I can tell, if it has a shoulder stock, then it's a rifle. Subject to a correction from Tim Anderson, Chairman of the IPSC Rifle Rules Committee (on which Troy served with distinction), and in view of Rule 5.1.10 quoted by Neil, I concur that "a firearm" fitted with a shoulder stock satisfies the criteria for classification as "a rilfe", provided the applicable Divisional criteria are also satisfied. Of course local, State or National legislation takes precedence under Rule 3.3.1 but, if the firearm satisfies the laws of the jurisdiction where the match is being held, you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Some guys 'round here will be happy to hear that! Thanx for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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